Nasir Meidan doubt

Zebadiah · August 13, 2014, 12:59pm

Stimhack can be used the same way though, being able to be used to trash card and use SMC isn’t a qualification for being in the credit pool.

PeekaySK · August 13, 2014, 1:53pm

Well, yes - hence, you lose the Stimhack credits as Nasir, unless you find a way to spend them quickly (probably on booze, blackjack and hookers).

JohnnyCreations · August 13, 2014, 4:31pm

You should be able to dump credits on Wyldside to draw cards next turn.

karmaportrait · August 13, 2014, 10:54pm

Ugh just nevermind 20 20 20 20

SamRS · August 14, 2014, 4:46am

supermodernism is easy to beat as you set up insanely fast, nbn rush decks are harder if they only play pop-ups, wraparounds and quandry, but not awful. Two worst matchups for nasir are the jinteki decks with basically nothing bigger than yagura and tagging nbn with asset economy. He’s insane against glacier decks though. Imp being almost mandatory makes scorched decks less scary, and you can also money fight them with good use of kati.

The easiest way to beat nasir though, is to run draco, fuck draco.

PeekaySK · August 14, 2014, 7:21am

Any chance I could bother you for a decklist, sensei? I have several of my own attempts, but they all feel like some pieces of the puzzle are missing, and I’m wondering what I’m doing wrong

SamRS · August 14, 2014, 7:44am

this is the one I’ve been running recently, although I keep switching between indexing and rdi

If you run rdi swap the SoT’s out for the third test run and either a sharpshooter (Archer in hb a lot now) or a second atman. Mulligan aggressively for workshop, and play atman at 0 more than you think you should.

Nasir Meidan: Cyber Explorer (Upstalk)

Event (16)
2x Stimhack (Core Set) ••
3x Diesel (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
2x Test Run (Cyber Exodus)
3x Quality Time (Humanity’s Shadow)
3x Indexing (Future Proof)

Hardware (8)
1x The Personal Touch (Core Set)
2x The Toolbox (Core Set)
2x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
3x Clone Chip (Creation and Control)

Resource (8)
3x Personal Workshop (Cyber Exodus)
3x Kati Jones (Humanity’s Shadow)
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)

Icebreaker (6)
1x Yog.0 (Core Set) •
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set) •
1x Morning Star (What Lies Ahead) ••••
1x Deus X (A Study in Static)
1x Atman (Creation and Control)
1x Inti (Creation and Control)

Program (7)
2x Datasucker (Core Set) ••
1x Parasite (Core Set) ••
1x Imp (What Lies Ahead) •••
3x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)

15 influence spent (maximum 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Upstalk

PeekaySK · August 14, 2014, 8:06am

Thanks! Looks like I’m not too far off of where you are - just chose to go with recurring credits for econ, which means no Morning Star and one HQ Interface. Also, Laundries over Gambles as I’m assuming NBN with Popup/Quandary spam is the thing to beat.

The thing I wasn’t running was Kati, which was probably a mistake - you obviously seem to think she’s important, since you’re packing three copies

edit: one random Nasir-related thought: seems to me like Yog is super-important for Nasir, because you really don’t want to handle those annoying little code gates (Pop-up, Yagura, Quandary) with the usual backup plan of “parasite away” - they’ll just come back and reset your credit pool again

JohnnyCreations · August 14, 2014, 4:00pm

I’m thinking the opposite here. I run two parasites in my current Nasir build and I almost always parasite all the 0 strength ICE, which usually happens to be very low rez (Popup, Yagura, Pup, Quandary, [sometimes] Draco, and Chimera). This means I can save my credit pool to dump on larger ICE.

I do concur with @SamRS on the value of a Kati, though. My current Nasir list is below and the only thing missing is late game econ. I can steadily put on pressure to (essentially) anyone through the midgame, but after the centrals have 2 or 3 rezzed pieces of ICE I don’t have enough credits to maintain pressure. I’m thinking I’ll go [-2 Daily Casts, +2 Kati Jones]. I’ll also switch the Fall Guys for Ghost Runner once I buy the new pack.

###My Try (45 cards)

[Nasir Meidan: Cyber Explorer][2]

Event (10)

3 [Diesel][3]
2 [Lucky Find][4] ••••
2 [Quality Time][5]
3 [Sure Gamble][6]

Hardware (14)

3 [Clone Chip][7]
1 [Cyberfeeder][8] •
3 [Dyson Mem Chip][9]
2 [HQ Interface][10] ••••
1 [Plascrete Carapace][11]
2 [R&D Interface][12]
2 [The Toolbox][13]

Resource (7)

2 [Daily Casts][14]
2 [Fall Guy][15] ••
3 [Personal Workshop][16]

Icebreaker (6)

1 [Atman][17]
1 [Battering Ram][18]
1 [Dagger][19]
1 [Deus X][20]
1 [Gordian Blade][21]
1 [Inti][22]

Program (8)

3 [Cloak][23]
2 [Parasite][24] ••••
3 [Self-modifying Code][25]

MasterAir · August 14, 2014, 4:38pm

Increasing the strength of Draco doesn’t feed Nasir does it? He is basically sad if the corp rezzes Draco and goes home with a tag. I guess this is somewhat countered by the fact that he’s a 1 link runner for which Draco is usually a tad pointless (outside of Making News)

JohnnyCreations · August 14, 2014, 4:43pm

Yes, Draco really hurts. Interestingly enough, Snowflake is boss against Nasir. Played an RP that had it (I know…I know…) last night and he was able to rez all three Snowflakes. Super bad, man. Super bad.

GreedyGuts · August 14, 2014, 4:49pm

Okay, but who else runs Draco, generally speaking? If you’re not MN or able to economically bully them all day long, it’s not a very good card, generally.

JohnnyCreations · August 14, 2014, 4:50pm

It is a generally good Siphon-hate card.

SamRS · August 14, 2014, 8:34pm

Datasucker rig helps a lot with lategame money. a lot of servers cost you a toolbox worth of credits to get into if you’re running morningstar and yog

willlt · August 14, 2014, 11:08pm

Throwing my version in here too, looks like we’re ending up pretty close.

Nasir Meidan: Cyber Explorer (Upstalk)

Event (6)

2x Scavenge (Creation and Control)
1x Stimhack (Core Set) •
3x Test Run (Cyber Exodus)

Hardware (13)

3x Clone Chip (Creation and Control)
2x Cyberfeeder (Core Set) ••
3x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
3x R&D Interface (Future Proof)
2x The Toolbox (Core Set)

Resource (12)

3x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
1x Fall Guy (Double Time) •
2x Kati Jones (Humanity’s Shadow)
3x Personal Workshop (Cyber Exodus)
3x Professional Contacts (Creation and Control)

Icebreaker (5)

1x Atman (Creation and Control)
1x Cyber-Cypher (Creation and Control)
1x Deus X (A Study in Static)
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set) •
1x Inti (Creation and Control)

Program (9)

3x Datasucker (Core Set) •••
1x Imp (What Lies Ahead) •••
2x Parasite (Core Set) ••••
3x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)

cspieker · August 15, 2014, 5:41pm

Now we gotta figure out a way to cram Ghost Runner and Net Celebrity in?

willlt · August 15, 2014, 10:16pm

What I love about Ghost Runner is you don’t need to take the credits off before you access. This is exactly the support that Nasir needs and I think you run 3 copies. Could probably even drop Imp actually.

Less excited for Net Celebrity, at one use per turn it’s hard to see it consistently recouping your investment. Nasir can have trouble getting stuck in Phase 2 and is sometimes powerless to stop the Corp from scoring. If there are Corp currents to cancel that’s another story.

Arkhon · August 20, 2014, 12:15pm

I kinda feel the same way about this, so I was very surprised that @mediohxcore and @TheBriarfox both rated it fairly positively in their reviews (3/5 and B+ respectivey).

In terms of pure economy this card quite frankly sucks. It needs to be used three times before you are beating the return offered by simply clicking for a credit let alone other economy options; which means it needs to last at least three turns (remember you can only use it during a run and you might not run / need the credit every turn). I don’t see it lasting long enough in most games to give you a reasonable return on investment because the Corp will be firing out agendas and may very well have their own current as well.

In the present environment of NBN dominance you can expect that the corp is going to score 4 agendas over the course of the game. If they were evenly distributed throughout the game that would be one every 3 turns roughly, meaning Net Celebrity would just about be turning a profit if timed correctly and the Corp isn’t playing his own current. In reality the distribution will be slightly skewed so Net Celebrity would be a little more worthwhile if drawn early, but worse if drawn later. If you end up having to play it more than once it’s almost certainly a losing proposition.

That’s not to say it doesn’t have anything going for it, it is an off-switch for the Corp’s current which we know (from Lukas’ interview) were designed to be better than the Runner’s. I’d expect to see most of the Corp currents feature in competitive play to some extent (Jinteki excluded, but RP probably packs Enhanced Login Protocols out-of-faction). It looks like there is no neutral Runner current in this cycle so @mediohxcore is probably correct in saying that Net Celebrity is “almost certainly the best runner current”. If you do need an off-switch this is definitely a better option than Unscheduled Maintenance (which is basically blank). Scrubbed is probably ok in-faction for Anarachs but too pricey to splash so, for now, the best Runner option probably is Net Celebrity if you really need to turn off your opponent’s Current.

Bringing this back to Nasir, clearly having credits available that aren’t part of your pool is a boon but, having said that, I think that people are already starting to realise that he can run quite cheaply and there are better options for burst economy mid-run if that’s what you need. So I would not stock Net Celebrity for its card text alone - it would have to be a meta call based on whether my local Corps were packing currents or not.

While I’m thinking about this, it occurred to me that the absenvce of a neutral Runner current and the Criminal current being poor could be deliberate. This relates to some of the other topics we’re debating in other threads so @SneakySly might want to cross-post some of this into other relevant conversations or start a new thread. If the Corp currents turn out to be playably decent (or even meta-defining) then having an off-switch could be important for the Runner. With the Criminal current being pretty much a blank and no neutral option it means that Andromeda will have to either start carrying dead cards or waste influence on a counter. Discuss?

Korrigan · August 20, 2014, 12:33pm

[quote=“Arkhon, post:61, topic:1667”]With the Criminal current being pretty much a blank and no neutral option it means that Andromeda will have to either start carrying dead cards or waste influence on a counter. Discuss?
[/quote]
Perfectly possible. I understand that they wanted to do something about andy prevalence, but shapers were barely behind. Now we get a flurry of criminal-hate cards, that practically don’t affect shapers at all: NEXT Silver (Shapers/Anarchs have Parasites and/or recursion and/or Morningstar), Lotus Field (Shapers have the best decoders/Anarchs have Knight), Targeted Marketing (Criminals might be a little more predictable), Paywell Implementation (we run a lot), Sealed Vault (we siphon and can’t just Imp it), Lag Time (we use the fixed strength breakers).
Some of those are not really “criminal-hate” cards, but imho all of them have a bigger impact on criminals than they do on shapers/anarchs.

Kingsley · August 20, 2014, 6:38pm

IMO, Net Celebrity is in part strong because it slots very effectively into PPVP decks, which seem to be the dominant form of economy engine for Shapers these days.