I didn’t mean literally unstoppable. Although unless you are running tag avoidance, the money race is over.
Very true, the archetype will have to change post d&d, i can only comment on what works as of right now.
Scored Breaking news + another scored agenda.
The difference is pretty big actually.
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Looking at 24/7 News Cycle, and i actually think i’m unconvinced by it. More often than not, you score a 3/2 before you score a breaking news, mostly because your waiting for the kill cards to turn up (this was true of the 3x TA build as well as the build with snares). The chances of scoring 2x BN are slim, and if you chase that you waste an incredible amount of time.
Forfeiting a 3/2 to use 24/7 News Cycle is a pretty bad swing in my opinion. Traffic accident is in the deck to circumvent IHW, and even then it is certainly not guaranteed to do so. If they hold 1x IHW its something like 20% chance to hit it with TA, if they hold 2x then that spikes to 70%. Hitting the IHW turns off the kill pretty solidly, tags or not. I genuinely don’t believe giving up 2 points is worth the risk.
Further, this goes back to my point about chasing the kill. With kill decks being popular, plascrete gets popular. Unless we import hardware trashing (not a bad idea really) your kill threat turns off. Which is really the main issue with the archetype, as when that happens your left trying to FA with a deck missing half its FA tools. You dont want to be giving up points to chase a kill that has a hard counter like that. I definitely think finding a slot for shattered remains is a good shout, something i intend to try, but generally even with hardware trashing, if your chasing the kill as the primary win condition i think that your playing butchershop wrong. I’m sure more experienced players will be able to contest me on that point, but thats been my experience with it pretty much every game iv played, win or lose.
Solid points. I foresee the agenda suite changing to become x3 Breaking News and x1 15 minutes, with x3 explodapalooza and x3 astro.
Also, my point about the money race is more anti Shaper and Crim than Anarch. I find that many runners relied more on a big bank than on double plascrete.
Finally, I maybe score out 1 in 10 games with this deck.
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I feel like the higher the level of competition, the more often you’ll have to try and score out. I am currently debating whether to make room for a second city grid for nationals to that end. But not sure yet
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I wouldn’t be surprised if this changed. Even leaving butchershop aside, D&D is going to enable some pretty deadly NBN decks (Media Blitz + Restructured Datapool + Making News = 4 credit tax every turn for the runner or they die) that Plascrete is going to significantly help with. Closed Accounts will also help with the actual money race, too.
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I think thats the agenda spread im trying as soon as i get my hands on D&D
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I already have two copies in my deck. I pretty much had to, to keep NEH a viable option as both of my Marked Accounts became Restructures.
It probably will. Teching with a closed accounts is probably the play around for that. I run x1 closed accounts currently, which I swap out for a Cyberdex if I expect some noise or heavy medium play.
Slapped together this inevitably shitty Haarpsichord Butchershop list in about 5 minutes. When D&D comes out, 24/7 News Cycle is probably replacing the Casting Calls. And I really want to fit SanSans in here somewhere.
Fuck This Earth (And Everyone in It)
Haarpsichord Studios
Agenda (13)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program
3x Breaking News
3x Explode-a-palooza
1x Project Beale
3x TGTBT
Asset (7)
2x Daily Business Show
3x Jackson Howard
2x PAD Campaign
Operation (17)
2x Casting Call
3x Hedge Fund
3x Midseason Replacements
3x Scorched Earth ••••• ••••• ••
3x Sweeps Week
3x Traffic Accident •••
Barrier (3)
3x Wraparound
Code Gate (4)
1x Enigma
3x Pop-up Window
Sentry (5)
3x Data Raven
1x Gutenberg
1x Information Overload
15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Old Hollywood
Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.
I’m gonna be betting there’s not enough money in here to actually threaten the midseason kill. I’m seeing 2x PAD, 3x Pop-up, 3x Hedge and 3x Sweeps, right? Room for Restructure?
Went to a GNK on Sunday with a Haarpsichord Butchershop, running two SEA Source & two Midseasons mostly due to @king_mob’s advice in this thread. Can report that in a post-Film Critic world, SEA Source saves this deck. Won me two games, easily, one by facilitating a 2x Scorched kill & the other by allowing me to trash an early Film Critic (saving a hosted Explodie) & get back on the Midseasons plan.
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nice to read people already experimenting with the new ID.
One last post about me seeking out deck building opinions. Am currently running the usual neh build, two restructures, 2 marked accounts, 2 pad campaigns. To make room for the second city grid I want to cut a pad or marked accounts, as I want to stay with the 12 agenda version over the 11 agenda version. Some thoughts on whether to cut marked account or pad campaign, or whether I should go back to the 11 agenda version to make room for the city grid would be appreciated. Current plan is to cut a pad campaign but many of you seem to prefer them to the marked accounts. I always feel…strangely vulnerable the turn I flip up the pad campaign, but could all be in my head.
So good peeps, convince me, one way or another! Gogo!
In my opinion, from what I’ve found playing the deck, Marked is better because that 1c more to trash oftentimes prevents the runner from trashing it. Also, since you spend clicks refreshing Marked, people don’t usually trash it. However, since often enough you’d be clicking for credits anyways, Marked is better for that.
I don’t know what the 12 agenda list is, but I’d say that it sounds worse than the 11 agenda list. The deck usually loses when the runner goes tag-me style, R&D digging so, the smaller the agenda density, the better.
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Pads and marked accounts really are there to tax the runner more than to fuel your econ. Sweeps + hedge fund will give you enough cash for most things, click for a credit every now and then, the difference between 2 credits and 3 credits is scorched earth.
Think about butchershop econ in terms of swings between you and the runner, not if you can afford all you stuff. The magic number for midseasons is whatever the runner has + 5 more credits. The sweet spot for SEA source is whatever the runner has +1c, but then of course another 6c if you intend to follow it up with a double scorch.
3x pads is fine for asset econ, or 3x marked if you find yourself slow rolling a lot and have clicks spare. Both will cost the runner to trash, and they will have to trash.
Really though, i wouldn’t go below 2x SSCG, the deck has so few FA tools as it is.
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I wouldn’t go below 2 SSCG not because I sometimes have to score out the normal way (though that is true enough), but rather because I wouldn’t want to give up the chance of killing someone off of BN on SSCG+Astro token score. It’s the best feeling EVER.
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The twelve agendas is usually dropping a Beale or Exploda for a third Breaking News and another one pointer. Usually TGTBT has been the twelfth but I’ve seen False Lead as well. I sort of prefer the twelve agenda spread just because seeing BN can be so clutch, but I’ve played both a lot and both work well (obviously). Just depends on style. I suppose with Film Critic being a thing now maybe the three Breaking News will be better.
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Its paradoxically the easiest way to get the BN kill.
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or just generally make use of the breaking news tags, right? There have been plenty of games where getting the naked breaking news onto the table early in the game would let me score it and closed accounts, or trash a kati third click, or wyldside, pro con, aesops, you know what I’m getting at. It just enables crap like that a bit more easily
If your trashing something like a loaded kati, you can probably just FA the breaking news out off a san san or with an astro token and blow up the resource on your last click. For the kill you need two clicks, 1 for a traffic accident or scorch and 1 for the follow up scorch. The easiest way to do this, weirdly easier than midseasons or sea source iv found, is to score out an astro, flip a san san, FA out the breaking news and follow up with 2 kill cards. This doesnt even require a credit lead or the runner to have run, which is why i find it easier to pull of despite being some all weirdness 4 card combo.
Leaving the BN on the table for a turn is doable but risky, it depends on how you like to play i guess. Some players in my meta i know i can naked install an astro against and iv got a good chance of them ignoring it. Some players know my bullshit too well and will take the time smashing every remote i put out.
Although to be balanced, i know iv played many games where iv installed the BN naked, and taken care not to rez the 2nd/3rd PAD or jackson so they cant see immediately that the mystery facedown is probably an agenda (hard in itself as sometimes you need that damn jackson), then hit the kill with an astro token. Hell iv had games where i installed a BN, advanced and stuck a piece of ice in front of it. Still worked, NEH glacier is legit.