Yeah Peddler might make Cyberfeeder playable
1 Like
I do agree sure gamble is better than cyberfeeder, but I hated to hit them with a peddler. The other options I had were Armitage (which is actually pretty good with peddler and pawnshop)ā cyberfeeder (also great off a peddler) and liberated accounts (not great off a peddler and no synergy with pawnshop).
I donāt love the cyberfeeders but they are definitely alright in this build, especially in the knight variant Iām running, since you do actually run and break ice quite a bit.
@Stiv mimic and corroder are amazing. Mimic is actually one of the cards I want to see the most vs HB and Fastro, since breaking architect with knight is a pain and there is no way to trash it. In the late game, they help a lot whenever I switch into medium lock.
@king_mob hah, yeah! Love agalloch. Nice list btw, how have the armitageās been working for you? Iāve considered playing them instead of the cyberfeeders - I donāt think Iād ever cut daily casts 
Cyberfeeder is an MVP for me too. I think the long term economy benefit is undervalued just because it takes a few turns to reach a certain level of efficiency. For me the card basically reads: gain a credit per turn. I tried daily cast in that spot but felt like I prefer to have the game-long recurring credits (and noise games can be long!) than a better short term efficiency. It more often than not effectively costs 1 to play if you drop a virus the same turn, too.
I can see the argument for not playing it though, itās probably a personnal preference thing
1 Like
Having not paid any attention to this thread I started yonks agoā¦Iām just dropping in to say āthank youā to @SneakySly for making the thread title make no sense anymore .
(I understand why itās been done and donāt actually care, obviously)
3 Likes
Iām not sure if it is a personal preference thing. The maths on Cyberfeeder just isnāt very good unless Street Peddler is involved. Noise doesnāt need slow grindy value. If you arenāt already winning slower long games with Noise youāre doing something wrong.
3 Likes
I also think itās a mistake to give the peddler credit to cyberfeeder. That credit is gained whatever you install with street peddler. Cyberfeeder looks good, I understand the appeal. But 1c a turn forever is worse than 2c per turn for a bit in Noise especially. Also, I donāt worry about the anti synergy between peddler and gamble. If youāve got 12 events (which you probably donāt) your peddler misses about 1% of the time.
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Itās more about being able to consistently get economy off peddler when needed than being afraid of a complete peddler whiff - that being said, I def have to test out armitage in place of the cyberfeeder and see how it feels.
If youāre running aesopās, 3 casts and 3 armitage goes a long long way for an econ package. Add in cache and youāre going to be so rich my beloved cyberfeeder will cry. I love CF as a card, but I sold my last one to aesop some time ago and never went back to get the pledge back.
1 Like
Nailed it. If you have a card like Peddler that provides a discount and your options are āuse your discount on a good cardā and āuse your discount on a bad cardā thatās not an argument to play the bad card.
FWIW hereās my ranking from best to worst of Noise econ (after Aesopās obviously) when it comes to beat NEH or win games where Pawnshop doesnāt show up:
- Cache
- Gamble
- Casts
- Scheherazade
- Cyberfeeder
- Armitage
Personally if I go against a Noise player limping along with $2 and a pair of Cyberfeeders Iām going to rush that Astro or Nisei out pronto without a lot of concern. If theyāre firing off early Gambles and ticking down Casts I have to respect a larger number of ways they can break my early remote.
3 Likes
I do think itās fair to look to more non Event econ when you want Street Peddler anyway. The problem of course is that Cyberfeeder is still too weak to make it in, and Iād rather play Gamble anyway.
I think armitage looks better in a street peddling landscape. Iām a sucker for that card anyway. Basically all peddlers that arenāt flogging cheap parasites or caches are duds most of the time.
Or Aesop. Never forget Aesop.
1 Like
The drip econ cards fit with a certain play-style. I donāt think itās as simple as a math problem. To me, lamprey, Imp, datasucker, and parasite are all cards that draaaaaaag out the game, slowing down both players by constantly forcing rezzes and then resetting the board. A lot of Noise players do not run as much as they should, which actually speeds up the game (counter-intuitively). That passive style makes drip econ (feeder, $Daemon$) less good. In most of my games with Noise I average 10-12 credits from a feeder and many more from a Scheherazade. That said, my build has WAY more viruses (3 lampreys, 2 mediums 3 of all the obvious ones), which obviously also helps these cards.
If you want to sit back, have money and threaten, you want gambles. If you want to yolo facecheck all day and grind it out, drip is better. This actually runs contrary to popular belief.
Of course this is all from anecdotal experience. Believe what makes sense to you
5 Likes
Hmm, Iām wondering why Symmetrical Visage is played then? Obviously itās not played in Noise but I think the same principle would apply.
Itās rarely more than a 1 of, and itās the least conditional recurring credit card available.
The problem with Cyberfeeder is that you donāt want to be running or installing cards that arenāt Cache when you donāt have much money.
1 Like
I think if there was a card that said choose either cyberfeeder or daily casts it would be super amazing. Cyberfeeder is really, really good for about 4 turns. Playable for 3-4 more and trash afterwards. Those numbers are reduced in your worst matchups (decks that would prefer the game lasted <10 turns). I donāt doubt the first cyberfeeder is usually good, itās just that you play 3 to see it in time and then you have dead draws.
I wonder if Faust increasing the value of dead draws helps its value enough. I suspect not.
Play one of each? No dead draw.
[URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/noise-core]Noise: Hacker Extraordinaire[/URL]
Event (12)
3 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/deja-vu-core]Deja Vu[/URL]
2 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/inject-up-and-over]Inject[/URL]
3 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/ive-had-worse-order-and-chaos]Iāve Had Worse[/URL]
1 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/stimhack-core]Stimhack[/URL]
3 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/sure-gamble-core]Sure Gamble[/URL]
Hardware (6)
3 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/clone-chip-creation-and-control]Clone Chip[/URL]ā¢ā¢ā¢ā¢ā¢ ā¢
1 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/cyberfeeder-core]Cyberfeeder[/URL]
2 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/grimoire-core]Grimoire[/URL]
Resource (8)
2 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/adjusted-chronotype-the-valley]Adjusted Chronotype[/URL]
3 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/aesops-pawnshop-core]Aesopās Pawnshop[/URL]ā¢ā¢ā¢ā¢ā¢ ā¢
3 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/wyldside-core]Wyldside[/URL]
Icebreaker (5)
1 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/corroder-core]Corroder[/URL]
1 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/crypsis-core]Crypsis[/URL]
2 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/knight-mala-tempora]Knight[/URL]
1 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/mimic-core]Mimic[/URL]
Program (14)
3 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/cache-the-spaces-between]Cache[/URL]ā¢ā¢ā¢
1 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/d4v1d-the-spaces-between]D4v1d[/URL]
2 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/datasucker-core]Datasucker[/URL]
2 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/imp-what-lies-ahead]Imp[/URL]
2 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/medium-core]Medium[/URL]
3 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/parasite-core]Parasite[/URL]
1 [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/scheherazade-second-thoughts]Scheherazade[/URL]
NOTE: You could make the following change by preferenceā¦
-2 Adjusted Chronotype
-3 Wyldside
+2(or 3) Earthrise Hotel
+3(or 2) Daily Casts
The decision between gamble and cyberfeeder always boils down to the barrier to entry and the 5 creds needed, very rarely efficiency. Drawing into gambles you canāt play is such a regular thing in Noise, unless you are going full-turtle/control (in which case Sahasrara is really much better than Feedersā anyway).
Drawing into virusā youāve pre-paid always feels really good on the other hand. But they feel crap late game too in certain situations.
Not the bestest, but I think you need one or the other, depending on how you play, but I canāt see either being room for Peddler. I think it has to be part of a new draw engine, etc with inject, three deja, three clone chip, and a higher focus on building up the parasite/datasucker breaker suite, so must have 2 mimic, 2 corroder in breakers.
I think itās a more aggressive running idea which could totally work.
I feel like once I get to the point where cyberfeeder is unplayable, I also donāt have time to do anything but play viruses and run. As the game goes on, the agenda density in R&D increases and the marginal value of each mill increases. Missing a mill because you played a casts that you ended up not needing can be game losing. Itās true that there is a point in the game where you can play casts but not feeder for good value, but at that point I think it is incorrect to play a pure econ card anyway. Itās not worth the click.
3 Likes
I never really understand this argument. If youāve got Aesop youāre starting (very nearly) every turn at at least 3 credits.
3 Likes
Yeah itās not a huge difference, weāre talking inches I guess. Not having Aesops cripples gambles. Having cyberfeeders at least allows you to carry on installing stuff and keeping on going. Trying to eliminate his reliance on Aesops is a big step forward for Noise IMO.