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Now, which is the weakest ID of runners/corps in your perspective?


#21

I think the weakest corp id is obviously Custom Biotics.

Identity: Division • Deck: 45 • Influence: 22
You cannot include Jinteki cards in this deck.

First of all, I think HB is the faction that least needs to use influence. An increase in 7 influence is good, but not that significant. Unlike most other IDs, this one has a drawback and a relatively serious one. Not only are you preventing from using almost a quarter of the card pool, the runner knows which cards are not in your deck. Ice is a lot less scary when you don’t have to worry about scary Jinteki ice like Chiyashi, Swordsman, and DNA Tracker.

In theory, Custom Biotics is a good ID for a combo deck using high-influence, non-Jinteki cards, but several factors cause this not to work out in practice. First, not being able to use Jinteki cards essentially rules out net damage combos. Brain damage combos don’t really need the extra influence, especially since you can’t use cards like Neural EMP to finish the runner off. Meat damage initially seems like a good option because of the high-influence Weyland cards, but it often requires infrastructure to tag the runner from NBN. There aren’t any particularly synergistic HB agendas or high-influence cards for this strategy, so there’s not much reason to simply run a Weyland deck with NBN cards or vice versa. In addition, other HB IDs are significantly better for combo decks. Cerebral Imaging and Sportsmetal both have powerful abilities well-suited for combo decks and a full 15 influence.

tl;dr: The minor upside of Custom Biotics is counteracted by the minor downside, basically leaving us with a blank 45/15 HB ID.


#22

The weakest runner ID is a little less obvious, but here is my shortlist ordered from most to least playable:

Nasir
Nero
Iain Stirling
Fisk
Exile
Khan
The Professor

There are some runners with similarly weak abilities, but that make up for it with extra influence, lower deck size, or meta utility.

Nasir is one of the most interesting runner designs. I still don’t fully understand the best way to use Nasir and I’ve occasionally seen Nasir decks do well so I don’t think he’s the worst runner.

Nero’s ability is pretty minor, but can help early aggression. His marginal ability combined with his 1 link prevents him from being the worst runner.

Iain Sterling has a potentially powerful ability that works well when you’re behind. It also synergizes with Film Critic. However, only 10 influence is a relevant drawback. The fact that his ability only works while the corp has scored at least one agenda point already and has more points than the runner means it’s awkward to build Iain’s deck–you’re planning to be behind. There are also a few corp decks that plan on comboing out 7 points in a turn and/or killing the runner without needing to score agendas.

Fisk is an odd ID because he has one of the few abilities that actively helps the corp. Since it is optional, it will never be worse than blank. Fisk depends on support cards more than most runners, and unfortunately his support cards aren’t very good. Investment Seminar can be good, but you can’t recur it with Same Old Thing since it’s a priority event. Deja Vu is also out of the picture now too. Even at its best, a dedicated mill deck wasn’t great and it’s no longer at its best now. Aside from mill, Fisk can help flood the corp with agendas which is stronger now that Jackson is gone. I think Maw Leela is better at that though.

Exile could have been good if there were enough powerful cards that triggered his ability, but even with Clone Chip and other recursion as good as it is, his ability isn’t worth enough. He does have a link and his ability isn’t 100% blank, but Geist puts Exile to shame.

Khan’s ability is almost never relevant. Even if you build around it with her breaker suite, you still have the problem of her breaker suite being too expensive. If you don’t use her intended breaker suite, her ability rarely triggers, so why would you use Khan? She has the benefit of a 40-card deck size, but has 0 link and only 12 influence. A blank 40/12 criminal is not even up to the power level of Silhouette.

The Professor is similar to Custom Biotics in that his entire ability is related to deckbuilding. Again, we see an ability with a downside. The downside is greater than the upside in The Professor’s case however. When the MWL restricted cards using influence to a minimum of 1, The Professor was at his best. We’re beyond that now and he was still one of the worst runners even then. Overall, I think The Professor is worse than a blank Shaper 45/15.


#23

God I loved that deck. Won at turn 5 or 6 once (i really don’t remember, but gosh yeah it produced rq).

Though I’d like to try it now, in this late meta. CB, like Prof, was supposed to be stronger today. The thing is it’s unfun to play, and maybe that is where its true weakness lies.

Nobody wants to dig it.

-edit- nah, it’s horrible.


#24

Weakest runner:Khan.Not only weak,but even totally unfun to build around her ability.At least Nasir is fun.

Weakest corp:Harishchandra.The same reason as above,and forgot by most of the players.


#25

I actually had a fun/good Khan deck with the B&E breakers back when Blood Money was released. It was good mostly on the back of Temujin Contract before everyone realized how game changing that card was. There were definitely better Criminal/Anarch decks with Temujin, but that Khan deck was pretty fun.

Also, Harishchandra is still an NBN ID with 17 influence. There was not a lot of reason to try it since NEH is still legal, but with new NBN cards that have been recently released that benefit from knowing what’s in the Runner’s grip, it might be worth experimenting with it now.


#26

Looking back at my list of weakest runners, it’s interesting that it contains 4 criminals, 3 shapers, and no anarchs. I also realize I forgot to include minifactions, but I think Sunny is viable, Adam is better than Nasir, and Apex is around the same level as Exile.


#27

The people putting Iain on this list are nuts. The math on his ability is insane.

He isn’t played because Leela is a monster, not because he isn’t good.

Weakest runner: Khan
Weakest Corp: Very hard question. Probably GRNDL, if we are counting rotated, The terminal directive purple is probably the worst current corp. I don’t think I’ve seen it played since we finished up that game.


#28

Maybe you’re right, he does seem stronger in theory, but I haven’t seen him work effectively. The 10 influence is pretty much the least influence of any runner (barring Professor). GRNDL could be the worst corp since its ability is almost a net negative, it really needed a 40-card deck size.


#29

@Zebadiah: Someone is forgeting Kit.


#30

The math on his ability is nuts, but only if you are putting yourself in a losing position, and then purposefully keeping yourself there. This makes for a very weird game, where you try and get a couple agendas in the same turn before the corp scores their last agenda, which isn’t always possible. He’s hurt further by being completely neutered influence-wise.

As far as Leela went, she wasn’t released til after Ian had already existed for a bit. He saw basically no play in that time, because his ability is too negatively conditional. Of the H&P Crims, I’d choose Ken over Ian (and Sil) every time.


#31

Tough choice between Khan and Fisk for crims.

What is weaker? An ID that most of the time does nothing, or an ID that most of the time helps your opponent?


#32

GRNDL was a strong rush ID for a while and fit very well into the Supermodernism archetype. Maybe it was never tier one but the fact that it was good for a time leads me to not select it over, say, Because We Built It which has an all-upside ability that’s just not good.

Iain seems fine. Good rebirth target, great with Film Critic. You don’t actually to be losing to be dripping credits, especially for control criminal builds. I remember some Logos Keyhole builds that waited for the corps first score, then siphoned them into the ground while using Keyhole to win.


#33

An ID that don’t have a deck : at least Fisk got a deck or two. nKhan is homeless since two cycles.

I agree with @phette23, GRDNL was not that bad in its time. GRDNL killed me T2 multiple times, which is the corp with the quickest victory ever (mkay, I won T1 against it a couple of times too).


#34

i don’t think we can really say how often a card is played as whether or not it’s good

i think Seidr is largely an unknown and inconsistent, but as a bioroid ID, i think it’s way better than stronger together. i think a lot of people put too much stock into some crazy combo with all the click-draining cards that run your opponent out of credits, cards, etc. and then realise you don’t actually need Seidr to do that

at the TD release events, i played Seidr. my first game was against someone who, at the end of the game, said something to the effect of ‘that ID is terrible, it never triggered the whole game!’
this person is a very casual player btw, and when he does show up for tournaments often goes to time. he showed up to a regionals and played while eating a sub sandwich

anyway, my response was that he was so scared of the ID ability that he only made 1 run the ENTIRE game on a server with ice on it, and he ended up hitting a snare and dying

i think Seidr is just a decent ID. you need things like Lateral Growth, Advanced Assembly Lines, and stuff that you can just play for some extra cash without ruining whatever it is you want to be doing. i think having things like NGO and Rashida are good too, since you can force a run on R&D after they spend/lose a click or they have to contest the remote. there is a mindgame component as well: is that an agenda? is it the rashida i just saw you put on your deck?
this is where the inconsistency comes into play though. this doesn’t mean the ID is bad. in fact, i strongly argue the opposite. but this kind of ID isn’t going to perform well at tournaments where consistency is really important, but lack of consistency doesn’t mean a card/deck is bad per se (even competitively, just less optimal than some other option)


#35

No worst ID here, just an obligatory stub for The Professor and Custom Biotics. It is my firm belief that the value of deck building via influence manipulation is severely underestimated, though whether that belief will stand the test of time ( and my improvement as a player ) is doubtful.


#36

Professor has always been weak because MU restriction is the most prohibitive element of runners. No amount of strong programs make up for that fact and it actively handicaps heavy program runners vs event/resource. Prepaid Kate and Hayley in general didn’t help for the general power level of Shaper events/resources either. It’s also why it’s utterly absurd that MO is on the restricted list given it’s 2 mu restriction and the far more efficient regardless of mu Liberated account isn’t and I’m genuinely surprised that hasn’t changed one way or the other given Anarch dominance and Mopus failure as a restricted card.


#37

Also worth noting that reg Prof running Anarch programs could of won plenty of tournies in recent years just like reina/null/alice etc. Whizz/Val were just better at it, skilled players still would of won with Prof/Reina/Null/Alice decks fairly often though. If the Prof had access to various Anarch over the curve cards like Inject/Liberated/Deja Vu it would probably have been tier 1. It also hasn’t helped that Anarch/Shaper have had access to breakers that would see regular play in the appropriate runners pie particularly killer (MK Ultra, Mimic, Dagger, Na’not’K.) Killing Profs advantage in that regard.


#38

Khan/Nero probably take runner although Exile/Nasir are fairly useless now. BWBI is the worst ID period but gone ST/Custom Biotics are close and in the running for current.


#39

MO is on Restricted list almost entirely because MO+Inversificator Kit (Noob Kit) is ridiculously powerful and easy to set up, and incredibly boring.

MO vs Liberated… Lib gives 10 over five clicks, and MO gives 3 over 5 clicks. However, in 12 clicks, Lib gives 17 and MO gives 17 as well… Baaaaaasically, if you can get away with not having cards, and do everything you need to do with just Clicking For Money, Mopus is better than Lib. Which, it turns out, Noob Kit is pretty good at doing.

As a program, MOpus is easier to find. As a resource, Lib is easier to remove. Finally, most breaker suites don’t fit a MOpus in them as well, and we established that MOpus means you want it installed for lots and lots of clicks. These combine to explain why MOpus is Restricted and Lib is not.


#40

Livberated will take an extra click on top of that, as you have to draw the second copy.