Official Rules Question Thread

Rules Questions
2736

[quote=“popeye09, post:2671, topic:1437”]
Crisium Grid applies its affect in perpetuity. Does this mean it is a constant effect that instigates what is technically a triggered effect (the changing of the run outcome)?[/quote]Crisium Grid affects in perpetuity only because it removes the initial trigger (a successful run) when it happened, not necessarily because CG’s effect works even when it’s gone

[quote]If so, what is the trigger? There isn’t one directly apparent in the wording, although it would need to be “When a run is successful” for the desired function.[/quote]it’s just a constant effect. not really a trigger per se, but rather the absence of a trigger (a successful run)

the board state itself checks when certain things happen and remembers those things. CG prevents the board state itself from remembering if there was a successful run for the purposes of current/future card abilities

[quote]Linguistically-speaking, in the case of Ice Carver the “is encountered” bit seems very much like the “is not considered” bit in Crisium Grid. What makes one effect remain after the text becomes inactive, and one disappear? And are there any clues that help us determine this distinction for any particular card?
[/quote]neither effect lingers really. it’s just that the board state’s memory never imprinted in the first place for CG
you’re looking at it from the wrong angle

“Make a run AND gain a click” seems like two separate effects (and two clauses), so it’s partially resolvable

compare to “Make a run TO gain a click” or “Make a run. If you do, gain a click,” which would require the run having been made to gain the click

[quote=“dodgepong, post:2734, topic:1437”]
Can I click Professional Contacts if my heap is empty in order to still gain a credit?[/quote]yes, since the effect is at least partially resolvable, though i’m not sure exactly why one would do this instead of simply click for a credit. is there a corp card that checks for basic clicks for credits like Gorman and such for runners?

cannot trumps all, but given what i said above, it seems you can gain the click, and you’re restricted from being able to run

[quote]Can I play Lawyer Up when my stack is empty?
[/quote]if you have at least one tag, seems to be the case

i know that Lawyer Up apparently can actually be played without any tags, meaning the AND conjunction separates the two effects. i know what we all say about assuming, but i imagine it would work vice-versa (the second effect resolving but not the first)

as for Howler, it seems to be that the and conjunction and in this case isn’t separating two effects but just coordinating two steps of the same effect (installing and rezzing). i think given the other rulings though, i would argue that one could install and not rez a bioroid (and still trash Howler). this seems like a ruling that could get overturned

as for how it compares to Artist Colony, i know that you can search and fail to find something if it doesn’t exist. Artist Colony, however, seems to be allowing you to search for your stack for a card that cannot be installed (an extra copy of your console, an event as in the example), but the effect was resolved. you searched your stack and found a card, you just couldn’t actually install it.

compare to, say, Special Order, which requires that you find an icebreaker (if there is one). you only fail that search if there are no icebreakers. the only way to ‘fail’ Artist Colony is to find a card you cannot install (as long as there is a card in your stack, you will always ‘find’ a card, since it searches for anything)

1 Like
2737

Someone on Reddit claimed Leela can’t bounce public agendas as they are “neither rezzed nor unrezzed”, is this the case?

2738

after a very heated (and quite angry) reddit debate, there was an official ruling that that is indeed the case (it also confirmed that everyone who participated in said debate was wrong lol, though some were more wrong than others).

2739

Good catch. I think this may be a UFAQ ruling that needs to be reversed. I will see what I can do about it in the FtM UFAQ.

3 Likes
2740

Which one, the Howler ruling or the Artist Colony ruling?

2741

Howler

4 Likes
2742

I sent some rules questions to Damon recently, and this was part of it. The answer was no.
The reason stated was that if you cannot do something, that implies that you can’t even TRY to do it. So if you can’t run, you can’t play ANY cards that have “Make a run” as part of their effect.

2743

Yes, but that is contrary to previous rulings that is you don’t have to be able to fulfil all parts of an effect to play a card, just some part of it. Like play Diesel to draw two from a nearly-empty Heap.

Being able to fulfil part of something is different to being able to fulfil none of it.

If you can’t play Early Bird to resolve the click gain but not the make a run part:

[quote=“Early Bird”]
Make a run and gain [click].[/quote]

Then by the same logic you can’t play Apocalypse to fulfil the trashing the Corp cards part if you can’t also meaningfully resolve the turning Runner cards facedown bit (if you have no installed cards for instance, that won’t change the gamestate).

[quote=“Apocalypse”]
Trash all installed Corp cards. Turn all installed Runner cards facedown.[/quote]

2744

Isn’t “all” including"0" ?

1 Like
2745

Yes, but it still has no chance of changing the game state if you can only turn zero cards facedown.

The rule has always been than only one portion of a card effect needs to have the ability to change the gamestate in order for the play to be legal. This Early Bird ruling seems to overturn that and say that all parts of an effect need to have the potential to change the game state for it to be a legal play.

2746

No, this example was only in the situation where the game prohibits you from doing part of the effect, not when a part of the effect cannot be done. So if a card said “You cannot turn runner cards face down”, then you could not play Apocalypse, but if the game allows you to try turning runner cards face down, you can still play Apocalypse, even if you have no runner cards.

1 Like
2747

If that’s true, you can’t play Apocalypse while Architect is rezzed.

1 Like
2748

Ok, so here’s what understanding I’ve gotten from Damon regarding this:

If you have Genetics Pavilion rezzed, I cannot draw more than two cards. So why can I still play Diesel, given this ruling? Well, because what Diesel does is not “Take the top three cards of your deck and draw all of them at once”, but “Draw one card at a time until you have drawn 3 cards.” As “Draw a card” is a legal play, you can still play Diesel even with Genetics Pavilion rezzed, it doesn’t “notice” that you will end up doing something illegal.

By the same reasoning, Apocalypse could be “Trash corps cards until all cards have been trashed”. Then it would be legal to play even with architect rezzed.

However, that would go against the ruling that Apocalypse trashes everything at once, and not one at a time i guess?

Rules, man. Rules.

Edit: Or, maybe it’s that the WHOLE action must be illegal?
My original question was whether you could play Code Siphon to shuffle your stack if you could not run, and the “Make a run.” part of Code Siphon then can not be done. Maybe as Early Bird says “Make a run and gain [click].” the whole thing is isn’t illegal, so you could play Early Bird to gain the click. Not sure.

1 Like
2749

Yeah I’m going to have to follow up with Damon. He may not realize the full extent of ramifications this ruling has.

FWIW there’s no point in ever making this play as far as I can tell, so it’s sort of moot. But if it applies to other things that can be a problem.

3 Likes
2750

My search skills aren’t doing great. FAQ clarifies who chooses the card for damage taken in the Titanium Ribs vs Chronos Protocol standoff, but does Chronos Protocol still get to look at the runners Grip when net damage is taken, regardless of whether they get to choose the card or not? Does this fall under the ‘partially resolvable effects’ domain?

You choose the card(s) from your grip to trash whenever you take damage (including the damage taken by installing Titanium Ribs).

and

For the first net damage the Runner suffers each turn, you may look at the Runner’s grip and select the card that is trashed.

2751

There are certainly scenarios where it would be a “useful” play, though none are coming to mind that are a) likely to occur, or b) all that advantageous.

E.g. If your whole hand consists of 1x Early Bird and 1x IHW, there is a Bio-Ethics on the table, and you want to spend 4 clicks clicking MO (or anything else that isn’t a run/won’t cause a draw). Burning the Early Bird guarantees 3 cards drawn on the corp turn. Bonus points if you’re doing this out of Ken Tenma (for all those MO/IHW Tenma builds out there).

2752

Actually, if I’m not mistaken, this could create a “let me call a judge so I can have him look at your hand and decide if you’re cheating” situation like Test Run- Scavenge when Adam is involved.

Suppose Adam uses Jak Sinclair to check a single-iced remote, and is disappointed to discover that it’s actually an Excalibur protecting a Navi Grid. Adam trashes the grid. Now his first click’s action must either be to play a run event or make a run. He can’t make a run. Presuming this Adam player is shady (just for fun, most netrunner players are pretty honest, it’s the least of my concerns relaly), the Adam player insists that he is unable to comply with the requirement on Always Be running, and spends his first click installing Daily Casts. Adam’s opponent calls “burkebug droppings #&$@” and calls a judge. The judge peeks at Adam’s hand and discovers -alas! - The Noble Path is in Adam’s hand. While he would be unable to make a run when he plays that run event, trashing his grip would change the game state, although it’s not hard to understand why Adam was not excited about playing this run event. (it could be an Early Bird he wants to save for later too but Noble Path is so much more fun).

3 Likes
2753

If Employee Strike is active and BABW plays Paywall Implementation, does the BABW give a credit or no?

2754

I believe no as BABW is blank at the time it would trigger, but that’s an excellent question for Damon.

2755

Feels like a silly question, but say I’ve got Sneakdoor Beta:

Make a run on Archives. If successful, instead treat it as a successful run on HQ.

And The Turning Wheel:

Whenever a run on HQ or R&D ends, place 1 power counter on The Turning Wheel if you stole no agendas during the run.

Sneakdoor Beta says that a successful run on archives is instead a successful run on HQ. If I don’t access an agenda, will I get a power counter on The Turning Wheel?

Bioroids typically let the runner spend clicks to break the subroutines. For instance:

The Runner may spend [click] to break any subroutine on Eli 1.0.

What happens from a rules perspective when the runner spends clicks to break bioroid subroutines? Is that a paid ability?