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Official Rules Question Thread


#4415

It’s not talking about an effect, this is describing the “Clic: Install card” action.

Or else if you have to use a click, all Shipement from Mirrormorph are Quadruple. :slight_smile:

Notice that if you take the rules by the letter : :slight_smile:

1 - "Install: The act of placing an agenda, asset, ice, upgrade, hardware, program or resource card onto the table. The Runner installs cards in his rig, the Corporation in his servers."
Then you can install ice in server and never protecting them :stuck_out_tongue:

And most importantly
2 - the runner don’t install cards from his grip or hand (just search for “grip” in rules, then count 19, then search for hand then find 37, then find the install action from the runner : lolwut? ).
(/troll)


#4416

Installs are from HQ unless otherwise specified.


Kitara Cycle: I bless the rains down in africaaa~
#4417

So you don’t read “install a piece of ice protecting that server in the innermost position” ?
Does “in” means the innermost positioned ice get replaced and trashed, if any ?


#4418

Can you host The Supplier on The Supplier ?

Pointless I know but if you really wanted to filter your deck before Levy or something?


#4419

I think so. The uniqueness rule doesn’t do anything until the second copy becomes active, and the hosted card isn’t active because it isn’t installed.


#4420

This is exactly right. We know from the “hosted” section that cards are inactive when hosted but not installed:

The state of being hosted is distinct, but not exclusive from, the state of being installed. Many cards are hosted on another card at the moment they are installed. When specified, cards can be hosted but not installed; in these cases those hosted cards are inactive.
(RR1.0, p. 14, emphasis mine)

We know that the unique rule only applies to active cards:

Unique
Some cards have a unique symbol (◆) in front of their title. There can be only one unique card of the same title active at a time. If a card with a unique title becomes active, any other card that shares its title is immediately trashed. This trashing cannot be prevented.
(RR1.0, p. 25, emphasis mine)


#4421

A simple question because I have had arguments with friends over this.

With Apex and a Chop Bot installed, can I install a card with Apex and trash it with Chop Bot immediately?


#4422

Yes.


#4423

More specifically, when your start-of-turn triggers happen (or any batch of triggers), you get to choose the order that they go off in. Since you can install a card with Apex, that would then give Chop Bot another target to chop when its turn comes around.

However, in order for a card to meet its specific trigger requirements, it needs to be in play when the trigger happens. The common example here is a Daily Casts hosted on The Supplier. At the beginning, the only trigger that can go off is The Supplier, installing Daily Casts that was hosted on it. Sadly, Daily Casts misses he trigger this turn, since it was hosted on The Supplier and not already installed at the time of the trigger.


#4424

Thanks guys. Just to be clear here, Chop Bot is the card that needs to be installed when the ``Start of turn’’ conditions trigger. A target for Chop Bot needs not to be installed at that point.


#4425

Which is a shame, because it could have been both useful and hilarious for The Supplier to sell you a bargain Chop Bot which immediately devours him.


#4426

Correct!

The rule that stops you from using Chop Bot without a target is the “Using Abilities” rule (emphasis mine):

Using Abilities

Any time an ability is optional, regardless of whether it is a triggered ability or a constant ability, then the player is considered to be “using” that ability and the card it is on if they choose to resolve it. A player can only use an ability if its effect has the potential to change the game state. This potential is assessed without taking into account the consequences of paying any costs or triggering any other abilities.

So you have to have a target for it when you choose to resolve it. That’s the only time that the game checks this. But when exactly is it that you choose to resolve it? For that, let’s look at the “Trigger Met” step under “Trigger Steps,” which is where the detailed timing of abilities is explained (emphasis mine again):

Trigger Met: The trigger condition of a conditional ability has occurred or the trigger cost of a paid ability has been paid, and the ability is ready to trigger. If a paid ability or an optional conditional ability enters the “trigger met” state, the ability is considered to have been “used”. Note that multiple conditional abilities can have their trigger met at the same time. Whenever one or more abilities are in this state, a player must trigger one of them. If the active player controls any of the abilities, that player chooses one of their abilities to trigger; if not, the inactive player chooses one of the abilities they control to trigger. After that ability is triggered and resolved, another ability in the “trigger met” state (if any) should be triggered in the same way.

So the choosing, and thus the check for a target, doesn’t happen until after the card is already in the “trigger met” state. Therefore, it can get into the “trigger met” state without there being a target. But it does have to be installed, as you said, so that it can see the trigger.


#4427

…wait, I may be wrong here. I read too quickly, and I skipped this sentence:

If a paid ability or an optional conditional ability enters the “trigger met” state, the ability is considered to have been “used”.

I still think the potential to change the game state isn’t checked until after the ability is in the “trigger met” stage, but I’m no longer 100% sure, because the two different definitions of “using” and “used” are confusing me.

@jakodrako Please help, I read too many rules and now I’m confused. Is an optional triggered ability “used” when it enters the “trigger met” state, as described in the “Trigger Met” trigger step, or when the player chooses to resolve it, as described under “Using Abilities”? If it’s “used” when it enters the trigger met state, does that mean it must have the potential to change the game state to enter the “trigger met” state? Or does trigger-met-used mean something different than using-abilities-used?


#4428

A question that arose on the facebook group: if a Red Herrings or Ben Musashi is removed by Salsette Slums during a run, does the text “This applies even during the run on which the Runner trashes [card]” work? Or does the fact that it was RFG’ed rather than trashed make it fizzle?


#4429

It fizzles. Their effects only specify becoming inactive via trashing, all other ways of becoming inactive still turn off the effects properly.


#4430

So you saying that if I, for example, make a successful run, and, in the ability window prior to the access step, install a Muertos Gang Member off a Street Peddler, and the corp derezzes Ben and can’t afford to rez him again, his effect will not be active during access?


#4431

Yes.


#4432

Huh. TIL. :slight_smile:


#4433

We’ve noticed this oddness in the wording and are discussing it.


#4434

Do LLDS Energy Regulator and Acacia work together? If the Corp purges virus counters, can I decide to use the ability of Acacia and then prevent the trashing with LLDS Energy Regulator?