Official Rules Question Thread

I believe the Corp will be forced to choose a non-Architect ice. Similar logic to the Ruhr answer 2 posts above yours.

Yeah the game doesn’t allow you to purposefully choose something that can’t be resolved.

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Sure, but could you enlighten me on the specific given exemple, please.

The runner can remove program in the beginning of any install action.

The name of the action you make there is playing a card (called mass install).

You’re right. For Runner installation, the rulebook says that program trashing can happen at the beginning of an “install program action” which is distinct from installing in general. Conversely the Corp optional trashing version simply refers to “installing” in a server or “installing” ICE, not an install action as such.

However, in the exact situation you mention, the same effect will be achieved by the over MU rules! As soon as you install, you will have to choose one to trash to fulfil your MU limit.

It’s not something I’d noticed before, and worth remembering. Using Clone Chip with Noise for instance, you can’t also choose to trash the empty Imp/D4v1d that you want in the heap (unless over MU of course).

Nononono. This is, unfortunately, just poor word choice on FFG’s part. The phrase “install action” refers to the process used to install a card, which occurs any time any effect installs a card. This includes paying costs, moving the card from hand to the board, establishing location/hosting relationships, placing recurring credits, etc. - and importantly, trashing like cards if desired/necessary.

This is confusing word choice, as I’m sure you know, because the word “action” in any other context means something entirely different.

So with Mass Install you take up to three separate “install actions” during its resolution to install each program you wish.

And you can definitely trash programs as part of installing cards from Clone Chip.

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Are players allowed to look at their deck when shuffling (not due to a search effect, obviously)? For example, if the runner plays Indexing and then I fire Jackson, am I allowed to glance at how the runner ordered the top of R&D? If the runner makes a successful Keyhole run, can I check the cards the cards the runner didn’t trash?

Ok.
Is it official & ruled or “faqed”, or is it an interpretation ? This should be clarified somewhere I think.
-edit- Yes, there is something about it on Personnal Workshop clarification in the faq BUT it specifies that you must trash programs if over MU limit.

(I’m browsing our forum with no “answered” status)

I was about to post several pages of the FAQ referring to “install actions”, but you already got there.

As I’ve mentioned previously, install actions are something I intend to work with Lukas on for a future FAQ.

just edited there at the same time you replied :smile:

“A program installed from Personal Workshop follows all the normal install rules”
=> the end :wink:

By that, do you mean that when a Caissa leaves a Daemon such as Djinn or Leprechaun, it should be considered as an “install action” ?

Okay,fair enough.

I wouldn’t categorise misusing a specifically-defined keyword as “unfortunate” or “confusing” though, rather it’s a flat out mistake!

No, it’s hosting itself somewhere else. You don’t take a card from your grip :slight_smile:

The (undefined I guess) hosting “action”, is very different to the install “action” and open rights for different things.

I’m not sure there is something like a generic “hosting action” ; every card that have a hosting action are very specific (ex : Glenn Station, Bookmark, Personnal Workshop).

So, most of the times the host/hosted status is part of an install action (ex Datasucker and Djinn).

That’s… a really good question.
I think I’ve not been looking at the non-Keyhole’d cards, but I’m not sure if there’s a rule to back that up. Because you’re shuffling, it doesn’t matter to the game that you look at the cards before shuffling, but it could give you extra information, and thus be some sort of tournament infraction?

(aka: This is one of the things that you should find in the Floor Rules document. I don’t believe it currently is?)

No, I meant that determining where a card that is about to be installed will be installed (and if it will be hosted somewhere) is part of the install action.

I agree 100%.

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I’m not sure about Indexing, but Lukas previously already ruled no for Keyhole peeksies. I agree that this should be a floor rules matter though.

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Hm. I’d guess then that there’s a specific delineation between ‘Search through your deck…’ and ‘Shuffle your deck’. For Indexing, I would posit that the Keyhole ruling would hold, if you’re shuffling with Jackson or Executive Retreat. I would guess that if you used EBC or Foundry to search your deck, you could probably look at the top cards to see how they were ordered.

This one’s interesting to me, because not many card games care about you knowing the contents of the deck directly before a shuffle. But in this game, that is information, and it’s valuable. (e.g. Infiltration says an Expose is worth 2 Credits…) So we might be forging new trails here. I know for a fact that doing this in MtG wouldn’t be a problem, but you also (almost) never manipulate the top cards of an opponent’s deck.

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I’m not sure this is true. Magic in many cases requires you know your decklist inside and out. There are a plethora of search effects as there as in ANR. There’s also Lantern that did very well recently that manipulates the top cards of the opponent’s deck. Fate Seal is a real thing in older formats.

If a player can’t figure out what is left in the stack by counting heap + hand + rfg, that’s on the player.

Lantern manipulates only the top card, and it reveals it to both players.

Magic allows you to attempt to search and fail to find, whether it was actually there or not. You can use an ability that says to find a Basic Land, search your deck, declare there’s none there, and then draw a Forest and play it. It’s because your Library in Magic is a Hidden zone, and it’s Private information what’s in your deck. You’re not required to be honest with Private information. (Except to a judge. Because duh.)

Netrunner does not. If you search for something in Netrunner, you must find it. If you fail to find, it was an illegal action in the first place. Which is weird to me, but hey, that’s the rule. (… Unless I’m wrong about this?)

(If anything, Dimir Charm is the closest to Keyhole I can think of in Magic, and if you crack a fetch directly after the Dimir Charm, you are allowed to see the top card that they left there.)

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No, because shuffling is a change in game state. This is what we were discussing up thread.

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