OG players return to the game, thoughts. feelings. emotions

^2017 zinger of the year

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Donā€™t be so gouache.

It isnā€™t about capitalism.

I was a musician for my entire 20ā€™s. I made music 40 hours a week on top working my day job. It was all I cared about and all I loved and I wanted more than anything to not have to do my stupid job that I hated so that I could make music all day and live my dream. But I never tried to charge anyone money, because art isnā€™t about that.

When you create something beautiful you should share it with the world. This is what the internet was about in the early days, before it kind of got ruined by ad-revenue and buzzfeedification. God is an open-source concept and so is happiness. I download mp3s, I regularly donate to soulseek, the pirate bay and wikipedia and if Sanders runs in 2020, Iā€™ll vote for him. Despite how annoying his 2016 followers were.

@tvaduva
Honestly, none of the netrunner content out there hasnā€™t blown my hair back and a lot of it is kind of annoying.

For pure game play, IceIceHedge and Metropole Grid both seems like a decent human beings with fair insights. One of my matches ended up in a Beyoken video which was a bit odd/charming to bump into. Luckily I didnā€™t make any super-dumb mistakes in that game.

Whenever I watch IceIceHedge I always think a better name for his channel would be 5AgendasMulligan6Agendas.

@BubbaTheGoat
It makes perfect sense that taking the skill out of a game you are playing would keep you off tilt. If you actually play the game, you are in danger of losing. If you let the dice play the game, your ego is protected.

This is the same reason that some people prefer Shoots and Ladders to Chess. :wink:

Some people prefer Chess to Chessboxing, particularly if they only signed up to play chess!

Iā€™m sympathetic why an extra mind game might have appeal, but when the rules say I get a random access from HQ, I want a random access, not an amateur magic trick.

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@sanjay Thatā€™s a breathtaking amount of mixed-metaphors in one post.

The psychology of choosing a card from HQ is not meant to be part of the skill of the game. There are already plenty of opportunities for mind games with face down assets and ice

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What can I say, I love metaphors.

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My my, arenā€™t you condescending.

If you ever actually buy the cads to play the game, you can play all the elite ā€œmind gamezā€ you like with whatever poor soul you deem worthy of your greatness.

Until then you donā€™t need to complain about how other people play the game since we at least support the people who work for a living to bring us this game. There are open-source/print-and-play/free-to-play games out there that you can legally play instead of stealing from content creators who choose to be paid for their work.

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I had to get it in under the wire!

Sanjayā€™s metaphor is insightful and not mixed. You may disagree with whether it is aptā€¦but it is not mixed. And to imply that there is more than one mixed metaphor is silly. And to imply that the count of mixed metaphors is so high that it could be breathtaking is sillier.

I recall that you used to be a pro poker player. So I understand your positionā€¦but you may find that many net runners disagree about what gives a game heart. Rather than going hyperbolic on them, I suggest listening and disagreeing more clearly.

IMO, what gives netrunner itā€™s heart is itā€™s theme, deck building complexity, and itā€™s nearly-impossible-to-optimize decision making. I like the feeling when I realize that I had miss assessed a probability and could have made a better decision. Itā€™s a reinforcement learning problem whose solution canā€™t usually be approximated by simple heuristics. Thereā€™s enough complexity for me to worry about. Mind games (including Psi games) that overwhelm the otherwise intricately complex decision making is not a satisfying part of the game to me.

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@BubbaTheGoat
Let it out man. Get it off your chest. You tell 'em!

Roll some dice to calm down my friend. I think this message board has tilted you. Itā€™s all good buddy.

Iā€™ve got some ā€œget a job, hippieā€ and a dollop of ā€œget off my lawnā€ too if youā€™d like thoseā€¦

Okay, you got to attack someone on the internet and get riled up. Take a deep breath and relax now. Itā€™s just a game.

You steal from people I respect, why should I be nice to you?

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Hey bud. Calm down and be respectful. Thereā€™s a good discussion here but you need to deescalate if you care to have it. Communication is a cooperative activity.

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Iā€™m guessing you enjoy the psi game element?? If so, you would have loved Caprice! Personally I hated her, and I tend to do ā€œwellā€ on psi games. As a runner she was too much uncertainty so I always had either a political operative or a councilman. Even with those cards, Corp recursion often led to a psi game for the win.

If you have nothing more to say, you donā€™t need to make posts.

Your message is inappropriate to this board and bring down the quality of this community, please delete it.

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If I donā€™t win a psi game, I beat myself up.
When I hang on to a game by winning a Future Perfect psi 5 times in a row, I feel pretty hot.

In the original Netrunner, traces were done with both players secretly selecting their number and revealing at the same time. There were some very dramatic moments where one player has their entire credit pool in their hand and the other reveals zero. One of them gasps in surprise.
I understand why they changed how link works and in many ways this new system is better, but I feel like the essence of netrunner are these great moments of unexpected fake-outs and out-thinking.

In a certain sense, Netrunner is kind of a game that plays itself. With two higher-level players who know what they are doing, the decks sort of dictate the match. I watched the Worlds finals and those guys donā€™t even hesitate, they are just good enough to always do the most logical thing in any given situation.

The brilliance of Netrunner though is that, in the long-term, thoughtful bluffing is the element that can skew a win-rate higher than seems mathematically expected.

I was watching a stream and two players were saying that when the corp has 6 agenda points, you have to run on a fort when a card goes into it no matter what. The player then did and it was an ambush and he was like ā€œI knew it, but I had to.ā€

This is a VERY common thing you hear even pretty good poker players say in analogous situations. The prevailing thinking in Netrunner right now seems to be along the lines of ā€œThere is a 90 percent chance that this is correct so I always do it and 10 percent of the time I will be unlucky.ā€ What I think is the most fascinating (and difficult) skill is figuring out when you are in that 10 percent outlier scenario.

To me, the greatest move in Netrunner is when the corp is on 6 agenda points, puts a card in a fort that looks like an agenda and somehow the runner just doesnā€™t run it, even though he easily could and probably ā€œshouldā€. Putting the whole game on the line to gain a small, maybe not even critical efficiency in a situation where the math dictates strongly not to and being confident in your choice to do so is a pretty cool spirit to aspire to.

Obviously, you will be wrong sometimes and feel pretty dumb when the corp just finishes out games unchallenged because you just didnā€™t run because you ā€˜had a feelingā€™ and were completely wrong. And there is an ego element to that too.

But the game can be so incredibly rewarding and elegant as a higher battle of wits and itā€™s really satisfying to have a game that lets you compete on that level.

I think this grossly understates the difficulty of the game. IMHO itā€™s almost the exact opposite in most matches for me. And while many people can play fast, I seriously doubt any game is played perfectly. A playerā€™s ability to accumulate advantage from many slightly better plays than their opponent is what the game is about. When two players are evenly matched, luck of the draw is important. But I perceive that there are reliable differences even within the top 100 players in the world.

Can any top players arbitrate this point for us? How close to perfection can you pilot your decks? Does a match with a deck that you know well still have lots of difficult decisions? Is there a difference between Runner and Corp?

Alsoā€¦the Worlds final was one of the most terrible matches Iā€™ve ever witnessed. I donā€™t consider it reprentative of netrunnerā€™s potential. And I hope FFG takes it as a reductio ad absurdum of CI.

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