Old Hollywood Grid, is it worth the build around?

Skitzafreak · 2015-08-11 05:22:44 UTC

So with the new data pack coming out I’ve been wondering if it’s worth trying to make a deck around the new Upgrade Old Hollywood Grid. Since it isn’t a unique upgrade, you can have one installed in multiple places. Hell if you put 3 in your deck and draw all of them, you can throw one on HQ, one on R&D, and one on your scoring remote.

My question, is does anyone think this is worth trying to build a deck with? The first thing that comes to mind for me is using Weyland, maybe Blue Sun for how it can feed your econ, or Titan Transitional for the extra influence. This lets you make an agenda suite that looks like:

1x Hades Fragment
1x Eden Fragment
1x Utopia Fragment
1x Government Takeover
3x NAPD Contract

This will give you 21 Agenda point with only 7 cards, and all your one of agendas can’t be stolen if they are in servers where you have the Old Hollywood Grid.

Obviously you’d need either ways to recur OHG in case it gets trashed (maybe Interns or Archived Memories would work) plus maybe some cards to help make it harder for the runner to trash your cards in the first place (that new Asset, Ronald Five comes to mind).

Again I don’t know if this idea is worth developing further or not, but it caught my interest so I figured I’d see if anyone else who is a better Netrunner player than me could give some comments.

Vimes · 2015-08-11 05:52:30 UTC

I’ve been trying to think of ways to incorporate Old Hollywood Grid as a cornerstone of a deck but am just not having as much success as I would like. In my current build I am playing out of ETF in order to recur it with Architect, have some nice economy and tax with bioroids and assets, Turing kicks butt, and to create some trash problems like you have mentioned. I also think Excaliber is a cheap inclusion to prevent them running and trashing Grid than diving in again.

The main problems I have is that many things do OHG’s job better, like Ash and Caprice. It’s rez cost is very steep, and it can be Film Critic’d around in a way the other upgrades cannot be. On the other hand it is a bit of a surprise and if you can keep the runner poor (hard atm) it can make the lock for the few turns you’d need to score those.

I can post up my HB build but I think it needs a lot of work. I’m wondering if such a thing can also be run out of Jinteki, particularly Harmony or Biotech, to speed it up (econ problems though and why not Caprice?) Or find a way for it to stick in NBN where the top tier upgrades are harder to fit (but then you lose citygrid in the score area).

Therad · 2015-08-11 06:10:28 UTC

Maybe in Industrial Genomics or gagarin? Or as an influence free ash in NBN FA to score the first astro?

Also, with exploda-palooza you may gain 10 credits and the runner has to run twice.
Actually any on access will trigger. So TGTBT will trigger. Or fetal AI.

Vimes · 2015-08-11 06:19:14 UTC

Genomics is great if we can make the econ. They’ll have to run through a Crick on archives to be able to trash OHG somewhere else, and that will bring OHG back or an economic asset. That was my first stop but balked at having no Jinteki building experience.
If you are scoring that first astro quickly, I think Red Herrings is a cheaper and therefore more consistent OHG in that situation. Using the effect agendas makes NbN tempting yet again, though. If it could just hold 2-3 turns to max that Beale, but that is dream talk again.

Lttlefoot · 2015-08-11 09:14:38 UTC

This is the agenda suite I used for nbn
1x AstroScript Pilot Program
1x Character Assassination
1x Corporate War
1x Explode-a-palooza
1x Global Food Initiative •
1x License Acquisition
1x NAPD Contract
1x Project Beale
1x Utopia Fragment
1x 15 Minutes

kiv · 2015-08-11 11:53:52 UTC

If everyone is playing Film Critic then there’s no point, otherwise it could be reasonable as it stacks with Ash/Caprice.

For Blue Sun it’s going to be hard to score out with that agenda suite. Maybe you could kill them but it would be a lot easier to score if you have mostly 2 pointers:

###[Kiv Saves Christmas][1] (49 cards)

[Blue Sun: Powering the Future][2]

Agenda (9)

1 [Corporate War][3]
1 [Geothermal Fracking][4]
1 [Hades Fragment][5]
1 [NAPD Contract][6]
1 [Oaktown Renovation][7]
1 [Priority Requisition][8]
3 [Project Atlas][9]

Asset (6)

1 [Adonis Campaign][10] ••
2 [Executive Boot Camp][11]
3 [Jackson Howard][12] •••

Upgrade (5)

2 [Ash 2X3ZB9CY][13] ••••
1 [Crisium Grid][14]
2 [Old Hollywood Grid][15] ••••

Operation (12)

3 [Hedge Fund][16]
2 [Interns][17]
3 [Oversight AI][18]
3 [Restructure][19]
1 [Snatch and Grab][20]

Barrier (9)

3 [Curtain Wall][21]
3 [Hive][22]
2 [Ice Wall][23]
1 [Meru Mati][24]

Code Gate (5)

3 [Datapike][25]
1 [Tollbooth][26] ••
1 [Wormhole][27]

Sentry (3)

3 [Caduceus][28]

kiv · 2015-08-11 16:47:06 UTC

$4 to trash is a big upgrade from Red Herrings. It’s pretty easy to run a Blue Sun remote once and pay $5 to steal out from under Red Herrings, especially with say Stimhack. How about running that remote once, paying $4 to trash this, then running again in the same turn?

The rez cost isn’t that high when you consider how much you spend pumping an Ash trace on average to keep them out. If this keeps them out for $5 then that’s the same as doing a Trace 7 on the Runner.

If the Runner is richer than you it’s actually better than Ash since it still keeps them out once for $5 when Ash won’t.

In other words amazing? Now that you can Mushin + OTG a Vanity Project to win in two agendas, I am super pumped to bring OTG back.

Thesreyn · 2015-08-12 03:34:14 UTC

I’ve been looking heavily at this card for my IG deck. The only thing that stops it from being an auto-include is my expected prominence of Film Critic for a while after it is released.

I think the card is very solid, and if you can up the trash cost to ridiculous levels, it’s going to be awful for the Runner if they don’t have critic.

cmcadvanced · 2015-08-12 05:44:16 UTC

I don’t think film critic will be ubiquitous, people don’t like putting silver bullets in their decks that much, I don’t think. There will be people that play it, but that’s why you just put an ash or caprice or Marcus or whatever as well, and focus on making your centrals taxing. Old Hollywood grid is exactly what nbn needs for glacier, and it’s probably great for all the other corps as well.

Myriad · 2015-08-12 05:55:10 UTC

Kiv, do you have a decklist? I am trying something similar out of blue sun using the old Mushin-No-Grid build as a base and have had mixed results thus far. I like that both Contract Killer and Back Channel did subtle things to help the build.

You running 1 or 2 Vanity?

Thesreyn · 2015-08-12 06:09:03 UTC

But Film Critic isn’t a silver bullet. It affects a wide range of archetypes, and currently the two most powerful. I didn’t say it would be ubiquitous, but it is going to see a substantial amount of play - particularly in my meta - and I would expect to see a fair bit of it in tournaments following its release.

king_mob · 2015-08-12 12:27:53 UTC

Embrace the jank, yo. NBN Glacier, tier 1 confirmed. Just need to find the slots for memstrips.

Encrypted News Feed

New Angeles Sol: Your News (Data and Destiny)

Agenda (9)
2x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
1x Explode-a-palooza (Old Hollywood)
2x Global Food Initiative (Data and Destiny) ••
2x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
2x Project Beale (Future Proof)

Asset (9)
2x Franchise City (The Universe of Tomorrow)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
3x Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus)
1x Victoria Jenkins (Data and Destiny)

Upgrade (4)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead) ••••
2x Old Hollywood Grid (Old Hollywood)

Operation (10)
3x Enhanced Login Protocol (The Spaces Between) ••••• •
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
1x Interns (Mala Tempora)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)

Barrier (6)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) •••
1x Wall of Static (Core Set)
2x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (9)
1x Archangel (Data and Destiny)
3x Enigma (Core Set)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
2x Tollbooth (Core Set)

Other (2)
1x Excalibur (The Source)
1x Special Offer (Data and Destiny)

kiv · 2015-08-12 12:43:48 UTC

Should move this to a new topic if we want to discuss further…

If you play 1 Vanity you probably can’t find it unless you overscore Atlas, at which point you’re back to winning on three agendas. I suppose you could slot Fast Track to find a 1x, but then it’s going to sit in your hand for a turn.

I don’t have Old Hollywood yet so this is untested, but this is what I built:

###[Kansas Off The Grid][1] (49 cards)

[Blue Sun: Powering the Future][2]

Agenda (6)

1 [Hades Fragment][3]
2 [Priority Requisition][4]
1 [Utopia Fragment][5]
2 [Vanity Project][6] ••

Asset (7)

1 [Adonis Campaign][7] ••
1 [Contract Killer][8]
1 [Executive Boot Camp][9]
3 [Jackson Howard][10] •••
1 [Private Contracts][11]

Upgrade (5)

3 [Crisium Grid][12]
2 [Off the Grid][13]

Operation (14)

3 [Hedge Fund][14]
2 [Interns][15]
3 [Mushin No Shin][16] ••••• •
3 [Oversight AI][17]
3 [Restructure][18]

Barrier (10)

3 [Curtain Wall][19]
3 [Hive][20]
2 [Meru Mati][21]
2 [Spiderweb][22]

Code Gate (4)

3 [Datapike][23]
1 [Tollbooth][24] ••

Sentry (3)

3 [Caduceus][25]

SimonMoon · 2015-08-12 12:55:36 UTC

I feel like the deck wants an assassin. Blue sun builds are pretty good at keeping their opponent off of data suckers once they’ve built up, and assassin is mega-taxing against femme or sharpshooter recursion.

kiv · 2015-08-12 13:42:42 UTC

There’s probably a few changes to make with D&D, but I have no idea when that’s going to be up on OCTGN.

desertfox42 · 2015-08-12 14:01:24 UTC

Alright, here’s my stab at an Old Hollywod Grid deck. Plays like a wonky RP, basically: get your money set up, get a grid/caprice into the remote, then score out, baby.

Industrial Genomics: Growing Solutions (The Source)

Agenda (8)
1x Nisei MK II (Core Set)
1x Fetal AI (Trace Amount)
1x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
1x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)
1x Eden Fragment (The Spaces Between)
1x Hades Fragment (Up and Over)
1x Utopia Fragment (The Source)

Asset (16)
3x PAD Campaign (Core Set)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
3x Sundew (Mala Tempora)
3x Shock! (True Colors)
3x Mental Health Clinic (Honor and Profit)
1x Blacklist (Breaker Bay) •

Upgrade (5)
2x Caprice Nisei (Double Time)
3x Old Hollywood Grid (Old Hollywood) ••••• •

Operation (4)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
1x Interns (Mala Tempora)

Barrier (5)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) •••
2x Himitsu-Bako (Opening Moves)

Code Gate (6)
1x Tollbooth (Core Set) ••
1x Enigma (Core Set)
1x Lotus Field (Upstalk)
3x Crick (Breaker Bay)

Sentry (4)
3x Pup (Honor and Profit)
1x Susanoo-No-Mikoto (Honor and Profit)

ICE (1)
1x Excalibur (The Source)

15 influence spent (maximum 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Old Hollywood

SimonMoon · 2015-08-12 17:17:41 UTC

Fair.

CJFM · 2015-08-12 17:39:29 UTC

Here’s a thing we did…

5 Agenda BS

Blue Sun: Powering the Future

Agenda (5)
1 Government Takeover
1 Hades Fragment
1 Utopia Fragment
2 Vanity Project••

Asset (5)
2 Contract Killer
3 Jackson Howard•••

ICE (18)

barrier (10)
1 Asteroid Belt
3 Curtain Wall
3 Spiderweb
3 Hive

code gate (7)
2 Datapike
2 Enigma
1 Tollbooth••
2 Wormhole

sentry (1)
1 Nebula

Operation (14)
3 Hedge Fund
2 Interns
3 Oversight AI
3 Punitive Counterstrike
3 Restructure

Upgrade (7)
2 Ash 2X3ZB9CY••••
2 Crisium Grid
1 Cyberdex Virus Suite
2 Old Hollywood Grid••••

Also fun in Gagarin if you swap the Oversights, 1 Interns, and one ice ice for other economy (I used Capital Investors and grndl refinery). The ice makeup in the Gagarin version is slightly different too.

Myriad · 2015-08-12 17:42:12 UTC

In my five or so test games with the 5 agenda suite, you REALLY want to run 6 instead. Five means two steals and the game is over, which will happen more often than you want.

Vanity builds have a chance of it being three steals to win, which seems pretty decent.

CJFM · 2015-08-12 17:43:56 UTC

Fair enough. Haven’t given it enough testing, tbh. It was pretty annoying though.