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Palana vs. ETF


#1

Now, we all complain about ETF being too powerful, and that it should lose influence or something, because nobody would want to play any other identities. Then Palana comes along, which is easily better than ETF, and yet we don’t have the same problem. Isn’t that funny? My theory is it simply is because Jinteki has two other strong identities (PE and RP), while Haas has ETF and Cybernetics Divsion. And all of the other Haas identities are horrible, while the Jinteki ones are just subpar.

Thoughts?


#2

I would argue that HB has a plethora of good IDs, they just suffer from the “Is this better out of ETF?” question.

Also, let’s be clear, Palana doesn’t appear to be as good as ETF at face value for a lot of reasons. Foremost being that ETF pays you for doing something you want to do (installing) and Palana pays you for something that you don’t want (the Runner drawing cards). You also have to realize the Runner controls when Palana happens for the most part, not the Corp.


#3

I’d say it’s more because the IDs don’t exist in a vacuum. HB can do a lot more with massive gobs of money than jinteki can - Corporate Troubleshooter, Ash, heck their ice is generally a decent amount more expensive. Also, Palana has no direct control over the income, the runner does. The runner can just choose NOT to draw very often, then it’s crippling Palana’s income. Meanwhile, HB is pretty much guaranteed to get 1c a turn.


#4

Of course, if the runner chooses not to draw, it’s Jinteki. Do you really want to risk it to deny 1 credit?


#5

The runner can simply hang back and play a more slow game. They aren’t going to constantly be slamming their face into a spike wall, they’ll play careful and not take net damage often - and when they do, they’ll draw a bunch all at once, giving you only 1c. It’ll be really great against Faust runners (granted that’s a lot of runners nowadays) but more traditional runners can take it easy and shut down the econ.


#6

After testing, I can confirm that Palana’s ability is far better than ETF’s if you are running Agroplex. The problem being the lack of ways to use that money in Jinteki, where in HB you have a plethora of good big ice and Ash.


#7

In Jinteki,every ID does something the other ID can not do.If you swap a PE deck with RP you would be dead;IG swap to Medtech you would be dead;RP swap to Nisei is ok but still much less powerful.You see the good thing with Jinteki is that most of there ID represent certain archetype and style that the other ID cannot represent;while in HB,many deck you play can just swap to EtF.CI and CB or some Cybernetics is exceptional.
I wish they would release more HB ID like CI since it represent certain archetype that EtF certainly cannot handle. Shaper is actually in a better state since Jess/Nasir/Hayley/CT and the MWL overlord Professor all do have different styles and you cannot simply say “I would swap that for Kate”.In a HB deck (except CI/CB/Cybernetics/Foundry Twins bullshit) you really have to ask yourself “Isn’t EtF better?” and most of time,the answer is “Yes”.


#8

When the Runner draws, they can draw in one turn, then spend the next turn pootling around playing cards, running and doing things other than drawing. To be honest against Jinteki, the drawing of Runner cards tends to be more clumped than against most factions anyway, like drawing up after hitting a Snare!

When the Corp installs, they can choose to install once per turn, rather than all at once.

The Corp can choose to maximise the ETF bonus. The Runner can choose to minimise the Palana Foods bonus.

Not to mention that the bonus in each case is the same: credits.

ETF can happily run a deck that leverages having a lot of money. If you are running your Palana Foods deck to have a load of net damage (so that you are making the most of your ability by encouraging the Runner to draw on as many turns as possible) you have a deck dedicated to damaging the Runner. But wait, it’s a deck dedicated to leveraging money, since that’s the bonus we’re getting! It’s going to be more challenging to fit both of those competing interests into a game plan. Do you want to leverage cards, or credits?


#9

One thing that makes ETF so strong is that HB’s cardpool, while strong, is rather expensive. Their campaigns and ICE require a sizable buy-in to work. Other IDs have trouble getting over that hump, and are much slower for it. Jinteki has become used to working at a lower income level. What will make a Palana deck great is if it can leverage that econ while encouraging constant draw.


#10

The best use of money in Jinteki is almost always Psi, and Caprice is better when clicks are limited. I think Palana will suffer from the “Is this better out of RP?” question.


#11

HB has ETF and CI. Jin has PE RP and Pal. I don’t see the problem. That’s better diversity than Weyland!

I’ve playtested a good 20+ games of palana, in a caprice/nisei/batty shell, and am confident the Palana ability is approximately as good as ETF; sometimes a little better, sometimes worse, but never by much either way. It’s down to the agenda and ice suites, and right now, ETF is better on both counts for an anarch-heavy meta.


#12

FTFY


#13

Hopefully Jinteki got better ICE suit against this meta,then Palana would become balls.


#14

My thoughts have drifted to trying to use Tori Hanzo because I always wanted yo use here in PE but never had the economy to justify trying to play it. Palana seems like it would naturally have money and the more brain damage you can stack up on the runner, the more they’ll want to draw on their own turn, giving Palana more money.

But I struggle to make a deck that can both reliably land the brain damage and then leverage it. I’ve been trying to get scorches into the deck, but I’m not quite able to get something that seems like a coherent deck.


#15

So, what are those IDs? Cybernetics Division? NEXT Design?

Personally, I think the only two that are ok are The Foundry and Cerebral Imaging, neither of which is in a great posiotion right now and which compare poorly to second tier Jinteki IDs like Harmony Medtech.

Really, if EtF didn’t exist, HB wouldn’t be played at all. Which is not true of Jinteki.


#16

if ETF didn’t exist HB would have a stronger card pool :wink:


#17

Why do you think CI is good? It’s probably worse than all but Custom Biotics.


#18

I can’t wait to use CBI raid on a CI player


#19

I tend to believe the opposite based on testing in that because Jinteki has Caprice and Batty in house and since Palana makes roughly the same amount of credits as ETF it ends up being better than ETF glacier. They also have the unique ability of making a solely operation based econ so you’re not wasting ice protecting assets.

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/32915/amazeballs-tempo-food


#20

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/card/02053