Also, lots of decks can bounce from 0 to dangerous very quickly these days. PPVP Kate can go from 0 to inside a server twice pretty quickly. Tag punishment has to be very decisive to be important, I’ve found (Psychographics is the most punishing since it can end the game in a way the runner can’t easily counter (psychobeale) and Scorched Earth is the next most punishing, since it can just kill) and Closed Accounts is probably less interfering than Information Overload, though much easier to pull off.
I played you on OCTGN recently — that deck is extremely annoying! I ended up paying through the nose on Manhunts and avoiding tags only to eventually give up once you scored a Restructured Datapool and started going tag crazy in the end – scoring out of R&D for the win. I was running resource heavy Val so I needed to be tagless for econ but I was also worried about Scorch.
I’m not sure Kate cares as much about Closed Accounts / Being Tagged so I wonder if one Psycho is enough for her. Maybe a second Information Overload would be good for that matchup.
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I actually thinking about removing IO couse i didnt use it for more then 10 games.
90%+ players removes tags.
Have you seen this? NEH Butcher Shop Variant (2015 Linköping Regionals Winner) · NetrunnerDB
I think it is a quite nasty variant of butchershop.
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It is a sweet deck. But the only difference from standard butcher shop is the agenda composition and pup right? In theory I feel that the agenda suite should be more prone to variance, but maybe not. Obviously he’s been doing really well with it. TGBT is pretty annoying
No sansan. Wow.
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I am not to fund of pup, it feels a bit off. But TGBT is so good in this kind of deck. R&D digs through ravens becomes really dangerous. Another reason to never run last click.
I don’t think one plascrete will cut it at this sort of tournament.
The meta was pretty interesting in that tournament. Top-8 was 4 RP, 2 NBN Astrobiotics and 2 NBN Butcher Shop.
Meatdamage has been pretty prevalent during the SC season as well.
Considering how heavy the decks are going for the flatline I can see the point of not including SanSan and instead going for the eco advantage and midseason. Didn’t get to play against the winner though so got no first-hand experience against his decks.
Yes, but even with more plascretes it’s difficult to play vs the butcher shop if they get good draws. I finished 9th in that tournament, just missing the cut, bye-SoS too stronk. I was playing regular fastrobiotics with 2 blacklist and 1 cyberdex, and 2 sfss as anti-clot. I did die to shapers packing clot though, but the games were pretty close.
Still I feel after trying fastriobiotics at two tournaments now, with the top tables filled with ppvp clot-kate, that the good old NEH FA has too high variance for my taste. At least in our meta. Butcher Shop was the right call, for sure.
I think he was using pretty much the same deck as in the Örebro SC @Ilza
Most of these type of decks don’t run SanSan. You usually score your agendas naked on the field, balls hanging freely in the wind. I’ve experimented with builds using SanSan as well, but usually I end up missing whatever I cut out to fit the SanSan into it (usually ice). Plus, the money hit you take from rezzing one to score with usually shuts off Midseasons for the rest of the game, which is something you usually don’t want. In the same vein, I tried out 2 DBS in place of a Marked and a Pad, going 4-1 at the Boise Regionals (I failed the shit outa Kate though, so I didn’t make the cut for further games), but despite that, I’m honestly not sure that’s better either. Its cheaper to rez, and gains you instant tempo if they can’t/don’t trash it right away, but there’s times you see it and just think “I wish you were cash right now.”
As for the agendas, the one problem that I have running TGTBT and a 5/3 is that scoring out becomes harder, which is something that the deck needs to do against runners that can eventually out money you (prepaid Kate, especially), and not having Beals hurts that a lot. Beals also enable you to IAA them, daring the runner to run on them; if they don’t, you get a 3 pointer. If I can somehow get out 2 naked Astros and have 2 counters, I can score an NAPD, but that never feels good. Obviously riding out the Astro train still works, but you need to see all 3 of them. However, the TGTBT variant is what I ran at regionals, and they did some work. Having 1 more tag the runner didn’t expect to take is powerful in a deck with more meat than a sausage-fest sausage cookoff. Plus, if they can remove the tag, it’s a click and 2 credits, which is great, and it’s only 1 point in their score area, so it’s less pressure on me if they score one and I can’t punish.
But the 5/3 sucks if they can get it (so far hasn’t happened to me, but statistically it has to happen eventually), and feels risky. Most agendas, if in hand, I can have a plan for them regarding the runner. NAPD I can see if I can get them to take before they realize what’s up or if I have operational economy and a Midseasons in hand and they think they can take the hit. Astros I can throw down when I’m ahead or when they can’t check everything and score them out to make them feel the pressure. TGTBT I can bait as traps behind Data Ravens or throw one in Archives as a trap. Breaking News I can use to end the fucking game. But a 5/3? I shuffle back in with Jackson and hope the runner doesn’t score it, or if they do they do it at a miraculous time where they don’t have more money than me or win the game with it. And again, if I need to score out, it’s going to be a LOT harder if the runner already has an Astro.
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I’ve been playing Butcher Shop with Sansan lately. If you’re able to score an early Astroscript, Sansan + Breaking New enables the kill without worry of Clot or Midseasons. Reason enough to include it imo. Makes the deck more flexible as well.
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Yes, he used the same deck in Örebro (maybe some minor difference), but with Nasir as a runner.
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I asked this on Facebook, but what are people’s thoughts on playing SanSans in your NEH Scorched “Butcher Shop” builds? I’ve been seeing a lot of the really successful builds not playing it, and I assume it’s because of deckspace, but it seems like it would make a nice tax as well as enabling a win condition through FA as well.
I personally like running the SanSans, but there is very little deck space. If you play the deck with your main plan to win by flatline, then I would probably cut them. When I play Scorch NEH, I usually focus on trying to win by scoring, and so I find the SanSans better than the Marked Accounts or DBS or whatever you swap them for.
They were literally just talking about it in the previous 10 or so posts.
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Oops.
I’ll show myself out.
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I do too, but I’m thinking about how many are optimal? Atm I’m playing 2, but after looking at the Linköping lists, I’m liking the looks of those TGTBTs. So maybe 1 Sansan, 2 TGTBTs could work as well? Of course, then you have to find your 1 copy…
Can someone fill me in on how to beat Butcher shop? I’m rather embarrassed to ask but it is never played here, but someone comes in and sweeps with it in tournaments every now and then. My Reina Headlock got him to 0-5 before he Sweeps into double Scorched.
Run plascrete? Run IHW? Never float tags?