DeusX or QualityTime greatly reduce the Junebug panic, while being good cards. Overwriter can only be cheated with the otherwise useless Feedback Filter.
If you were doing your job, they never would have scored that HoK! If youāre confident holding 3 cards vs. Jintekiā¦
Iāve been experimenting with Flatline Jinteki, working from Chris Hinkes template that won the Cambridge, MA Regionals. Psychic Field was a card I originally did not understand. After playing:
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If the Runner hits the Pyschic Field first click, a Neural EMP in hand will get a flatline with a Triple Advanced Ronin. I have scored a lot of kills this way.
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A mere double advanced Ronin and a Pyshic Field also sets up a potential kill. if they run second click.
If you hit a double advanced (or moreā¦) Cerebral in all but the final turns against Chris Hinkes deck, it is very easy to lose from that point.
The downsides are obvious: itās not guaranteed (this is a big deal), it costs the corp, and there are plenty of counters (Account Siphon, Vamp, Deus Ex).
This is a really blanket statement thatās ignorant of the general complexities of this game at best, completely arrogant and unwarranted at worst. Thereās quite a few situations where you have to let an agenda slide, because stealing it would create too much of a scoring window. Letting a 1-pointer slide is basically the best you can hope for as runner, in those situations.
I thought about laying on even more sarcasm to go totally meta-meta, but then I realized you mightāve taken @moistloaf seriously, @PeekaySK. I donāt think he was being seriousā¦
Correct, it was a joke
All the more reason to āprotectā your traps with Pop-up Window! I imagine thereās a different approach with Psychic field (that I havenāt used that much), but just the possibility of playing Mushin > Junebug > Pop-up weighs on good playersā heads, particularly knowing that it couldāve been intended to protect specifically against Siphon/Vamp, even more particularly if they actually brought you down to 0 credits before hitting the pop-up.
With the threat of a surprise Deus X, I suppose you just have to play this straight, but I wonder how many people would jack out after the pop-up without it?
My vote for post of the year.
I had to play against another shell game jinteki and I cant for the life of me figure out how to deal with that *"%& as criminal. Random damage prevents you from preparing a super-turn. Multi-access can get you killed. You cant really end your turn with less than 3 cards. You cant really end your turn with a tag.
Super unfun.
Still think āPE isnāt a bad matchup for Criminalā?
</ jab>
edit: to be constructive, hereās my answer to your question (YMMV, of course)
- Draw a lot. Like, a lot
- Play the bare minimum of cards you need. Inside Job is a hitpoint, donāt use it unless it saves you several other hitpoints. Sure Gamble is a hitpoint, sometimes clicking for 4 credits and losing Sure Gamble to damage is the superior play
- Running without a Faerie out seemsā¦ less than prudent
- Donāt run with a card you canāt afford to lose
- Pray to Nyarlathotep they donāt kill any of your important cards with random PE agenda-scoring poke which you canāt really do anything about
- as an aside, never draw a card on the 4th click - you might draw something super-important and be stuck with it in hand, and thn lose it to that random poke
- Play goddamn Infiltrations. Like, at least two.
At least, thatās what the Criminals that beat my PE decks tend to do to succeed.
edit2: why the hell am I helping you? Criminals belong in jail, anyway! Long live the glorious evolution (of cloned flesh)
I only have one infiltration and Iām already doing everything else you listed
Itās just too random.
I just dont think that shell game Jinteki is the āglorious evolutionā. Just have enough credits and play a lot of cards in remotes.
One more (captain obvious-grade) tip: win from RnD, thatās the one server they donāt have control over. Donāt dig more deeply than the number of Fetals/Snares you can survive at the moment, though. A good technique is feeding Medium but choosing to only access 2 new cards at a time, delaying a full access for a hail mary when you think you have enough points to win - it forces purges just fine, and keeps you less at risk. Also, Indexing (if you can get in two times).
All the other suggestions Iād have would go into deckbuilding territory, and trust me, you donāt want deckbuilding advice on Crim from me
edit: trust me, shell game Jinteki is a lot more difficult to play than it looks. Itās akin to Andromeda in that regard, I suspect
Anything more than 1 card from RD can be lethal. Even 1 card is dangerous as you need to draw up after hitting snare/fetal.
No, actually - you need to draw up before hitting the Snare/Fetal.
This is why your usual turn needs to be:
- draw up to 6 cards
- make a run
- use the rest of your clicks in the most meaningful way possible, dictated by the results of the run
I agree that winning from centrals is usually the key to beating shellgame-PE, but playing a Suicide Interface is not my preferred way to go about it.
How do you go about it, then? If youāre only accessing one card at a time, youāre bound to end up with very unfruitful runs - for instance, paying 2 on a Pup to trash a Junebug for 0 doesnāt really get you ahead, because theyāre now drawing a fresh card you donāt know anything aboutā¦ and thatās possibly turn 1. Things only get worse, as the Pups / Komainus / whatevers start piling up.
With RnD Interface, youāll only very rarely actually take 6 damage - it needs both cards accessed to be either a Fetal or a Snare. Taking 4 damage is not uncommon, but once you figure the cost of the run into the deal, Iād still rather take 4 and get an agenda point (or possibly two) than just take 3 damage with nothing to show for it.
I think casino Jinteki is kind of fun. But agree that it can be frustrating to play against.
Deus X costs but 1 influence. If it is a concern, you can play Deus X (which is a generally good card but awesome vs. Shell game). Deep dig R&D hurts the shell game a lot. Infiltration is really good, Account Siphon is really good. Remember you donāt need much money, so your econ becomes hitpoints, donāt play on autopilot. Killing most of their traps and as many Jacksons as you can in R&D is a priority. The odds of flatlining to a 2 (even 3) deep dig on R&D is pretty minimal.
If you flatline in this way, you flip the table and swear never to play this janky half-arsed non-netrunner nonsense ever again.
I prefer to blow up all their R&D ICE and have a Desperado out. Failing that, thereās always Indexing.
I wonāt always hold off on R&D Interface against a PE damage deck, but generally I have to be pretty desperate or the Deus X needs to be on the table.
The problem is not that the 2 cards will kill you, but rather that the follow-up SEA-Scorched / EMPs / Ronin / Entanglement might.
Having played the shell-game Jinteki deck for a bit the best way to beat it is hands down through R&D. Play one R&DI if you have it. Denying the Ronin + EMP combo and other traps is clutch.
Chances of double Snare are low (plus if they have the 8c to pull it off), and if both of those converge then thatās the luck of the game. @PeekaySK is spot on with the 2 access, no more. This allows you to deny traps and make it difficult for them to draw through your lock.
Play slow, donāt rush. If you miss an access to draw up, then youāre still alive.
Best card against the deck is Keyhole.
Or Indexing. Or Medium + Demolition Run. Or Vamp. Or Deus Ex. Or Net Shield.
Too bad none of them are criminal