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Recurring Credits and Clickless Runner Econ


#1

With the introduction of Data Folding in Order and Chaos runners now have two permanent clickless economy cards, each of which can be enabled by the same piece of hardware (Dyson). I’ve been experimenting with a surprising degree of success with this, and I know I’m not the only one. Here’s my current list:

Drip Andy

Andromeda: Dispossessed Ristie (Humanity’s Shadow)

Event (16)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
2x Inside Job (Core Set)
2x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
3x Quality Time (Humanity’s Shadow) •••
3x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (11)
3x Desperado (Core Set)
3x Dyson Mem Chip (Trace Amount)
1x Feedback Filter (Creation and Control) •
2x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof) ••••

Resource (9)
3x Data Folding (Order and Chaos)
3x The Supplier (First Contact)
3x Underworld Contact (A Study in Static)

Icebreaker (9)
2x Corroder (Core Set) ••••
3x Faerie (Future Proof)
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set)
1x Mimic (Core Set) •
1x Passport (Honor and Profit)
1x ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead) ••

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Order and Chaos

There’s a good deal of refinement that can be done here (I’m seriously considering removing Supplier for Security Testing. Seeing The Supplier on opening is amazing, but seeing it late feels very weak). It’s not uncommon to see 4+ Recurring credits each turn and it allows criminals to sustain very well while maintaining the early game pressure through the standard tricks (Siphon, Inside Job, etc.) The recurring credits and standard breakers are much harder to circumvent than say, Stealth Credits or Datasucker Tokens. So far I’m 12-3 with the deck, covering games in SHL, regular OCTGN, and IRL. Losses to Tennin, NEH, and Blue Sun. Wins across the board. NEH is the most annoying matchup, as you mostly give up on your clickless economy after turn 2 or so.

I’m curious who else has been experimenting and what success they’ve had, if any? Are there other ways to beef up the clickless economy? Daily Casts? Earthrise? Easy Corp Counters? Etc.


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#2

I do think that with the Supplier in triplicate, cards that are better with Supplier (Daily Casts, Earthrise) makes a lot of sense. As does maybe running 1 or 2 inside man and switch to some more premium hardware (HQ interfaces, Autoscripter, heck, prepaids are way better when you get them for free).

I wonder how Toolbox holds up as a console option, it seems like a perfect fit for this deck, with the unfortunate drawback of simply not being a Desperado. My concern is even out of Andy, relying so heavily on Dysons feels a bit shaky.


#3

Do you have this list up on NRDB/equivalent? I’d be interested in testing it for myself.


#4

Interesting list, I would try to optimize supplier usage since your count is a bit low.
Reasonable choices:
Quality Time -> Earthrise Hotel (I would do this anyway since Earthrise is great and doesn’t cost influence).
Legwork -> HQ Interface


#5

Out of ~15 games I had one where I just couldn’t draw a Dyson. First one came about 25 cards down, maybe closer to 30. It was painful, and was a loss. However, I feel that’s part of the deck (and maybe part that Supplier -> SecTest can help mitigate). While many of your other suggestions are interesting, I feel they would slow the deck down considerably.

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/15523/drip-andy-v2

I’ve tried both of those. Earthrise is great when you’re setup but it feels weaker early. Considering balancing both. So far I like QT more, but I think both are valid. The surprise burst from Legwork is so good. Again, I don’t feel safe relying on Supplier every time which makes me hesitant to switch back to HQI. I could go a little more Supplier heavy, even trying to fit in a Hostage or two, but I want to be able to keep pressure early, especially against NEH.


#6

I think it’s worth referring back to this old post from Alexfrog:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/993697/underworld-contacts-worth-it

It’s hard to disagree with what I consider to be a very fair handed analysis. And it’s also fair to say that Corp decks are faster than ever now. NEH is far faster than any other corp deck out there at the time this was written, and even then he was worried about speed.

If you are going to make this work, it needs to be from a runner that has a really good early game, or forces the corp to considerably slow down. Andy is not bad, but Leela could also work - if she had a link. If Quetzal had a link, it wouldn’t be a bad plan either, since she starts with a ‘fracter’ and can at least apply some pressure.

But it’s hard to see how any of these cards are better than Daily Casts unless the game goes on much longer than they currently are doing. NEH games are fast, and worse: they are even faster if you play slow cards.


#7

I piloted a Recurring Andy to 3rd at the last SC I went to, and that was my first play experience with the concept and it took me until deep in the elim rounds to get a Sure Gamble in my opening hand, even with mulligans. I am the king of weird variance.

I tinkered with the list a little in the immediate aftermath of that event. I lost once with her to HBFA (7-6) and then once again in elims because I was an idiot on and put more money on Kati instead of taking money off when I knew my opponent had at least the SEA part of the SEA-Scortch (I don’t run plascrete, and the 6 or 9 bucks or whatever would have been more than enough). Otherwise, I was able to put the clamps on a variety of Weyland Rush and Jinteki Glacier/Untrashables.

It’s definitely a little slower than the usual criminal Good Stuff deck, but it felt really +EV vs. Glacier, and it was a fun change of pace.

edit after reading the thread a little more: I hate QT; I’ve never liked playing that card, but curiously I love Earthrise. Earthrise really works for me, especially here where you’re paying 2c for it. So good.

I’ve definitely missed having the Legworks in there, but haven’t been able to find the room. 1xHQI is… OK at best. 1x Legwork would be worse, 3x Legwork would be better.

This archetype would probably be tier 1 if The Supplier weren’t freaking unique. Ye gods, that little diamond :grimacing: .

Here’s my current list:

Andromeda’s Magnum Opus v.Test

Andromeda: Dispossessed Ristie (Humanity’s Shadow)

Event (15)

Hardware (8)

Resource (14)

Icebreaker (8)

Program (1)

15 influence spent (max 15)
46 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Order and Chaos

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.


#8

The first thing that came to my mind when thinking about porting this to a different ID was Ed Kim - he has a link already and bleeding accesses against him is usually quite destructive. The clickless thing also has a good synergy with his lategame of multiple Medium- and NA-powered runs.


#9

At the risk of stating the blatantly obvious, tempo is the issue.

Data Folding + Underworld Contacts is great long term econ, but the question is can you survive the set up? I’m not entirely convinced it works in criminal yet. I have an Andy supplier deck that I prefer to play and does well, but have not been able to transition it to the pure DF/UC combo.

Try it in PPvP Kate. It works really well there. The event econ will burst you through the early game and the drip econ will sustain you in the late. Here’s a deck I was toying with using Sage, but it works even better with fixed breakers.

PPvP Sagely Kate

Kate “Mac” McCaffrey: Digital Tinker (Core Set)

Event (19)
3x Day Job (Order and Chaos)[color=#FF4500] •••[/color]
2x Indexing (Future Proof)
3x Lucky Find (Double Time)[color=#708090] ••••• •[/color]
2x Modded (Core Set)
3x Quality Time (Humanity’s Shadow)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
3x Test Run (Cyber Exodus)

Hardware (16)
3x CyberSolutions Mem Chip (Fear and Loathing)
3x Dinosaurus (Cyber Exodus)
3x Dyson Mem Chip (Trace Amount)
2x e3 Feedback Implants (Trace Amount)[color=#4169E1] ••••[/color]
3x Prepaid VoicePAD (Second Thoughts)
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof)

Resource (6)
3x Data Folding (Order and Chaos)
3x Underworld Contact (A Study in Static)

Icebreaker (2)
1x Creeper (Humanity’s Shadow)
1x Sage (The Source)

Program (2)
1x Nerve Agent (Cyber Exodus)[color=#FF4500] ••[/color]
1x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Order and Chaos

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.


#10

That might work too. Or Reina, to slow the game down further.

VBG + Imp + The Source - trash every Agenda until you’re set up or the corp wipes and buys you time?

Astrobiotics is such a runner deck building constraint.


#11

It’s interesting you say that because this deck started life as me trying to make this work in E. Kim. I liked the idea but was frustrated by bad setups and weak early game, so I turned to Andy.


#12

Yeah, I feel like without Andy’s 9-card opening extravaganza this build is DOA because variance is a bastard.


#13

Data Folding is one of the worst econ cards in the game. Building a deck around it seems… bad.


#14

Nordrunner recently posted one like this too.


#15

For reference’s sake, Nordrunner’s list and write-up is here.


#16

It’s terribad if you pay 3c for it, yes. Also there’s some obvious game-state reading w/r/t when to play it, like with UC. Obviously they are both anti-econ cards if the game will be over in a couple of turns.


#17

The focus here is on getting it out using the supplier. While not sure gamble broken in terms of how good it is, it’s good to explore it and see if it can be made to work.


#18

I really think the supplier saves the day here. The 2 recurring to install resources is huge (though it’s only 1 for UWC/folding I guess). I think the fact you can reasonably play data folding turn 1 makes it not as bad as it seems initially. Is there an Iain deck here?

FWIW failing to diagnose a late game monster loses you games (as does 4 points in 2 cards off the top when you’ve got the win in hand). This deck certainly isn’t terrible.


#19

Drip econ on Supplier makes it even worse. Sure, you save 2c on the install, but you lose a turn of the 1cr drip. So…Data Folding is a bad econ card alone and the only card that makes it more efficient is Supplier, and Data Folding makes Supplier less efficient…pretty bad.


#20

Well, you’ve certainly convinced me, @JohnnyCreations — why even bother trying things out. Let’s just shut this thread down right here!