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Salsette/CtM Discussion Thread


#121

Note that a run is completed when it ends (by reaching step 6 in the run chart). This is not inhibited even if successful/unsuccessful being inhibited (it is a separate event).

This is important (if tangential); you could, for example, stimhack with no cards in hand to steal the game winning agenda before dying.


#122

Credit to @scd

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14292252_10154662755308690_2760931969326037623_n.jpg?oh=7cef41c78564e5f8b340fdec0b0605ae&oe=5844AA23


#123

That was my main problem of comprehension with this problem until this post.
Which states that paying to trash a card is made in the action “trash”, quoting the core rules.

Then I followed the same path as many here, Sneakdoor with ST, and Crisium with ST I think. And SneakApo also.

All those situations are very different, because of the nature of abilities of the 6 cards. Once abilities are correctly taxinomized (does that word exist in english ?), you have no problems and the world is brigth again.

@Wiegraf Crisium grid is perma stuff. It don’t need to trigger. It simply is a replacement on any run on that server, especially for cards in play. Then you trash it.
The crisium was perma stuff, the effect is lifted. Then you can use ST on the server because “for the purpose of cards abilities”, the first run was never successfull.
ST specifies “first successfull”, this doesn’t mean “first run and a run succesffull” AKA with ST, you can make a run on a target server, jack out, run again and gain 2c. It is the first time a run is succesfull, which happen to be true once you lift crisium because all runs you made there were neither a succes or a failure.

Then this goes to Sneak ST. 1st run on archives is successfull. But 2nd part of Sneak is perma ability trigger by a click cost. The thing you “buy” with Sneak is a run on archives. And it launch a perma ability “when it’s success replace” because, due to run mecanics, you can’t apply that part of the text when you just clicked on sneak.
Since it’s perma, it happen faster than ST’s conditional effect, but ST still have triggered. So the run is replaced before ST effect kicks in and ST fizzles. During a normal run on archives after this, ST can’t trigger since it allready triggered once this turn.

Then this goes to SneakApo. We did not have a confirmation but a SneakApoc Omar should be able to triple run archive then apoc :

  • once with Sneak, which happen to be a success on HQ
  • once with Omar which happen to be a success on R&D
  • once normal which happen to be a success on archives.
    This opens the conditions to play Apoc and be T1 Omar again. I suspect this will be the main archetype btw.

#124


#125

#126

Somehow I don’t think that a social media pronouncement by Damon is going to fundamentally solve a problem which stems from social media pronouncements by anyone being officially illegitimate as rules sources.

:wink:


#127

Earnestly, at this point, I’m done. I’ve shown why logically it makes the most sense to play with the CtM ruling I’ve put forward, and have yet to have it reasonably refuted.

You have the head of ANCUR, a resource dedicated to digging into the rules, saying the same thing.

You have the head designer saying you should go by ANCUR (in what seems to be a message aimed directly at this).

The point can’t be proven wrong, I’ll yield that much. It is ambiguous officially in that it doesn’t specifically say exactly how it does/doesn’t work.

But if you honestly feel like any other interpretation of CtM should be used at this point, you (in the generic sense, directed at no one in particular here) are an illogical individual and should not be a TO for a high-level event.

Peace.


#128

Can we close this thread?


#129

Personally I just want to say that I’m happy that this time it didn’t explode the Official Rule Questions Thread.


#130

“But its not in the FAQ so it doesn’t matter” is the argument you’ll get here.


#131

There’s a kind of libertarianism in Netrunner forums and it starts with the supposed “purity” of rules clarifications.


#132

One of the TO don’t drink beer :wink:


#133

Yep, it’s not in the FAQ, so, it’s not official :wink:


#134

I don’t see where in the rule there is an event dispatcher, and that the event dispatcher only exists for the purpose of cards effects. Also, where in the rule crisium prevent the event to be sent.


#135

EVENT
SENT

Who sent the event?

BRENT
SENT

Brent sent the event!


#136

It doesn’t need to be in the FAQ. There is no clarification needed beyond reading the rulebook. That said, ANCUR and Damon have both provided clarifications in whatever forms are available to them right now. Relying on it being “official” in the FAQ is moronic.

This is purely about a couple of Nationals TOs and their egotistical power trips at this point. The Slums/CtM interaction has been stated multiple times and the gleeful way some are choosing to ignore the intent of the game’s designer and the designated group for collating these changes is just, well, it speaks to the arrogance of these TOs more than anything.

This is beyond ridiculous. I personally believe the French Nationals should be cancelled at this point. There, I said it.


#137

I think the German TO has a leg to stand on, as he has stated that FFGOP told him he could not consider ANCUR. That is just at odds with basically every other employee. Jakodrako has stated that he is contacting them. the French TO, I’m less sure of. But the people on this thread? I just can’t even imagine what their logic is. They seem to believe that if there is any mild ambiguity that an official clarification in the FAQ is always required, which is just the path to madness. There was a guy on the Netrunner Reddit for a while who insisted that Same Old Thing worked with Always Be Running. He brought it up constantly, and according to everyone on here, unless that’s ever published in the official FAQ and he is TOing a tournament, he should get to do whatever he wants. It’s an advocacy I don’t really get and it’s at odds with the community norms that have been established for the entire time I’ve been playing netrunner, which is to seek a clarification from the lead designer.


#138

Precisely. I’ve been reading the Must-Be-FAQ posts thinking, “Okay, so what’s your plan?” The designer of the game (hopefully) tested the cards given the rulings that he is operating under, so I really think that his word - unless directly and obviously contradicted by the FFG published ruleset (which would be weird) - goes.

The whole thing strikes me as a lot of “you can’t tell me what to do” / rules fighting for no reason. jakodrako has every right to be annoyed and express that annoyance, and he certainly isn’t hurting the community to call out non-standard rule variants at national tournaments.

And ffs, does CtM need that extra boost??


#139

I hope this is meant to be ironic. I really do.


#140

For the record, French Nat will use the CTM/Slum Damon ruling now.


European Nationals 2016 thread