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Same Old Thing: Dice vs. Tokens


#1

Continuing the discussion from A Kickstarter for Netrunner Tokens:

Continuing the discussion from A Kickstarter for Netrunner Tokens:

Continuing the discussion from A Kickstarter for Netrunner Tokens:

Continuing the discussion from A Kickstarter for Netrunner Tokens:

Continuing the discussion from A Kickstarter for Netrunner Tokens:

Continuing the discussion from A Kickstarter for Netrunner Tokens:


#2

I personally only use 64 fluid ounce cups of Jack Daniels as click trackers, and life-sized oil paintings of Damon Stone as a Cherub for credit tokens.

This avoids all possible complications with token fiddling, as click tracking is done by chugging the jack daniels and simply flipping the cup over after every action - when spending my credits or “damons” as I call them, I simply flip them over to their Lukas side as I place them on my advanced cards.

Storage is so simple, because I found a nice plastic container the size of a moving van that conveniently holds all of my damons securely for $4 at a joanne fabrics. And I carry 5 gallons of jack daniels around with me everywhere I go anyways, so no problems there either.


#3

I don’t like telling other people how to play their game, so I’d never really object to someone using dice. However, it has thrown me off on occasion.

As an example, I played someone using a d10 for the single digits of his credit count and a d6 as the tens. He had explained this before the game, no problem. However, at one time during the game, I saw a single d6 showing 2 pips. I should have known better (since he had been rich all game) but for a moment I thought he was only on two credits. I made a run and was surprised when he could really Ice. It didn’t matter that game, but it did throw me off and wouldn’t have happened with ordinary tokens.


#4

For worlds I’m actually creating abacus glasses. In this way I can pretend I have a heads up display and my opponent will have to look into my eyes to see how many credits I have.


Srsly, 6 sided dice are quick, easy, and stable enough to keep track of credits. Dice are allowed by FFG and I prefer them and find them easier to count in mass than a pile of tokens.

As in every other topic thread; the point is that you have to be organized and talk through every step so that everything is explicit. If you can do this, your management system shouldn’t matter.


#5

Hate hate hate going up against dice, but about two thirds of all my opponents use them, so it’s just something I deal with.

They would make more sense to me if the game didn’t come with perfectly clear and acceptable tokens.

I mean, did you guys just toss the mountain of tokens from your three core sets?


#6

And this is mainly because with dice there is no physical representation of spending credits. I have to be aware of your beginning totals and ending totals at all times, as opposed to seeing the three tokens you tossed back in the pile


#7

Jack Daniels is horrible, not sure how you manage that


#8

I mean, did you guys just toss the mountain of tokens from your three core sets?

They’re around somewhere, and I prefer teaching with them; but once I got into competitive play, I found that they slowed me down, were unwieldy and caused me to play worse.

I have to be aware of your beginning totals and ending totals at all times, as opposed to seeing the three tokens you tossed back in the pile

If I’m using six siders and I’m spending 3 credits I’ll process it this way. “This die has 5 credits on it, I need to spend 3, I’m changing it to a two.” I’m sure not everyone does this, but it’s perfectly possible to work with dice without obfuscating your actions.


#9

I’ve started playing more with dice because it’s easier for me to glance at my credit pool without telegraphing my intentions. If I’m the corp and I’m spending a second to count my credits or reorganize them to make it easier to count, then the runner is getting some free info and can exploit that.

I like tokens thematically though, and can relate to it being hard to track players dice movements. What I’ve tried to do recently (since I can space out at times) is verbally declare what is happening. For example “Dirty laundry Archives, Spend 2 of 13 credits, go to 11”.

This also makes it easier for me to mentally backtrace my actions for some reason because I’ll remember saying 13 rather than just changing a 3 to a 1.


#10

:heart: dice over here. To those that say it leads to “cheating” easier than tokens or whatever, I think that bollocks. One of the best players here in the Portland meta, @bluebird503, uses tokens and I’ve joked many times that he could just throw whatever he wants out there because he goes so fast (he’s a good guy with numbers and plays Netrunner fairly quickly, a great skill!).

So, I have to really pay attention to him when he’s playing, which is another skill in Netrunner. All that said, use whatever tokens of goblets, or paintings, or whatever you want - just don’t cheat, and always pay attention to what your opponent is doing.


#11

I don’t like dice as money-trackers, but while we’re on the gripe, I really don’t like it when people pile their tokens higgely-piggelty on their ID. ALLES MUSS IN ORDNUNG SEIN, LEUTE! I lay my money in tokens in clear rows (sometimes stacking if I get that rich) at the forward edge of my play area so my opponent can clearly see money going into and out of my bank.

So it’s: organized tokens >> dice >>>>>>> disorganized tokens. Dice I don’t mind as a marker for the umpteenth tag or virus token.


#12

Personally, I place tokens on my ID so they spell out my credit totals.

Can’t we all just get along?


#13

I feel like we’re doing a good job sharing ideas here. I’m gonna borrow this money idea and @Chill84’s click-tracking concepts next time I play, whenever that is.


#14

Please… you’re all so bourgeoise. I have my own personal crier to announce my credit totals and virus counters, as well as to declare my incredible Netrunner prowess loudly before tournaments to further intimidate my opponents, Paul Bettany-as-Chaucer style…


#15

Dice are fine. They work for everything as long as you keep them clear, I keep mine in a neat row, and I keep them at 5 max (except data sucker tokens, those just stack up). Dice are absolutely FFG approved, as can be seen on any stream from FFG run events.

When I run tournaments I tell people that whatever you use, it needs to be clear to read. If it’s tokens, stacks/rows of 5, or something else that can be read at a glance. Also, no credits on the ID, that is where recurring credits for NBN:MN go.


#16

Get this voice of reason the fuck out of here!


#17

I don’t like dice for the simple reason that the shown information is gone and has to be remembered when it is picked up. With tokens you just remove or add the amount by which the total changed. With dice you remove more and put some back.


#18

I started out using dice for credits. After a while though I just switched to credit tokens. Feels way better, saying that you are clicking for two credits and .than just grabbing two feels more open about what I am doing than just turning some dice.

I still use dice for counters on some of my cards. For power counters on david and plascrete I use my purple die. And for my viruses I use my shiny green fluorescent dice. Virus counters get 1 upped a lot or removed completely dice feel pretty useful for that.


#19

I just do rows of 5 credits each, arranged into a neat matrix. That way, I can tell perfectly well how much money I have at any given time, without telegraphing much. Also gives me something to fiddle with that isn’t shuffling cards in hand (that shit drives my wife nuts).

This, so much this. Really hate it when people do that, to the point of asking them to re-organize so that I can see how many credits they have without explicitly asking them. Stuff gets super-weird if they play Making News, have around 3 credits and use credit tokens for the recurring ones as well.

(in my tournaments, the “get your goddamn tokens in order if you’re gonna play here” bit is part of my standard TO opener)


#20