Im still thinking that B&E wont work so much because it needs SO MUCH SETUP.
First: B&E suite takes time and if your using it vs big ice, are u really able to spare around 6-8 tech slot for it? and whats big ice, str 5? that takes a lot of breakers plus the link setup.
I think geist would work much better in a denial strategy derezing stuff with AS to boot, crescentus, clone chip, muertos, SOT seems to be an easy way to take care about big ice anyway, just needs a mimic to pressure rnd.
B&E does save you credits though. If you use your Spikes on Eli’s, and Crowbars on Lotus Fields/Tollbooths, you save money over using Zu or Corroder. Do Criminals need the Sentry one? Probably not, and you can go down to 6 B&E. Any ICE over 5 strength doesn’t see much play. Crims will still have to use their old tricks to deal with Curtain Walls.
I dunno, the B&E suite looks like a better Easy Mark, one that sets you up to a really good run on no credits. It’ll be worth a shot.
Edit: I agree that Muertos will be insane. To an undeveloped board its effectively a free shutdown.
Geist can be Tier 1 if his ability can be leveraged against the new glacier-heavy meta. Which, given his ability to draw quickly like you said, might actually work.
As for anti-Glacier Leela, in the games I’ve played standard Leela against glacier, I mostly just lean on Kati/Stimhack. Ideally I think Leela, and any Criminal for that matter, wants to win early rather than late, but having the game extend father brings all of the Criminal IDs into about the same power level. None of that holds for Iain however, who is probably going to be the dark horse Runner of the “new” meta.
Agreed. The home invasion kit seems like way too many working parts that are sub-optimal:
The easiest way for link is forger but that’s a terrible solution because of the loss of Desperado.
So many deck slots are being worked around for something that gives you a limited number of runs.
Clone chip/parasite for destruction along with denial via cards that are already good though? It’s what you might want to do anyway, and now you’re getting a reward through his ability of draws in a faction that really suffers with drawing and keeps up constant pressure.
If, now this is a big if, the Criminal Cybernetic has something to do with link, that would be huge.
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Like, if Geist is playing 9 B&Es, 3 Faerie, 3 Clone Chip, 3 Crescentus, and a few other breakers, he’s going to be installing even more than Noise.
That makes Autoscripter look like it may get value. Mass Install almost looks like an option too, almost.
I think Easy Marks may leverage his extreme draw power. With Autoscripter working, Day Job could be a thing as well. Play him like Kate, with his ability subbing in for the Voicepads.
Needing to draw and install so many cards just so you can leverage an ability to help you draw just seems counterproductive.
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A case for out of faction Wyldside?
I think that’s called Earthrise Hotel
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Autoscripter seems…odd. Maybe I’m crazy, but that thing needs to give you 5-ish clicks before it’s worth it - and we’re playing Criminal, with a breaker suite that encourages early facechecking.
Why do we need this high variance value card? We have a ton of moving parts already.
If I was going to add utility hardware to this setup it would likely be E3.
This looks like a good idea, but I don’t think it is, especially if you have aaany backup breakers. There just aren’t that many ice with enough subs that the B&E Suite needs the help, especially if they’re backed up by… pretty much anything, honestly.
Maybe I’m just dreaming of Grappling Hook to much.
Yeah, I had some idea of playing Autoscripter and 3 SMC, 3 clone chip in Geist decks. Scripter could pay itself off while you’re building your rig. And gaining a card and a click while you face check is pretty cool. Probably still jank at heart, but it’s not total crap.
It’s the problem I fall into a lot, but one that I think this ID exacerbates a bit.
Grappling Hook isn’t really a combo here if you’re using the B&E suite. It’s not an icebreaker, and it leaves something unbroken, so it needs E3 to be safe. The B&E stuff, though? It doesn’t, really. There are a few cases where it might be useful, but for the most part it’s just more combo pieces that won’t be relevant in most games.
It’s the same thing with Autoscripter, I feel like. If you get it turn 1, it’ll pay itself off. But it doesn’t combo with SMC or Clone Chip, and given Forger’s base power I honestly think you’d be better off with Rachel Beckmann most of the time – and that’s still probably a bad move. But Autoscripter either requires you to set up entirely and then go or make sure you never fail to make a run successful, which can be a big ask sometimes.
Mass Install seems much better, to me, because it lets you change the flow of the game suddenly. Used a bunch of trash triggers last turn (off of Fall Guy, say, who is effectively a delayed GLC for the Runner out of Geist)? Boom, Mass Install 3 new Cloud breakers and shift the math on your B&E suite to net an access the Corp thinks you can’t pull off. SOT it if you must later on.
The Supplier, similarly, seems more useful than Autoscripter, because it lets you turn on the Underworld Contacts all the faster, along with Daily Casts, the Helpful AI, Crash Spaces, and even something like Forger. Still not sure it’s worth the spot, though, because setting it up seems tricky – but UWC is certainly playable in a deck like this, so maybe it’ll be worthwhile as a potential supplemental engine – or a delayed discount on Clone Chips, I guess.
The big-time janky include for me is a Levy, because I think there’s a solid chance of running through the deck and being up for another go.
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I think the best thing about Grappling Hook + E3 is that it can kill OAI Curtain Walls for 1 credit. Plus, E3s are great for Bioroid ice, which are generally pretty expensive to break and tend to be higher strength so that might be an issue for the B&E suite.
Yeah, just read Autoscripter closely. Only fires on programs installed from the grip. Back to the binder it goes.
No way there’s room for Beckman in a Crim deck that wants Clone Chips. UC, and the Supplier in general, seem too slow and janky to be top tier. I love me some passive economy, but it’s just not effective outside of Kate’s PPVPs and Noise’s Aesop’d Caches
Maybe Geist is better without the B&E and extra link. Just splash Clone Chips, a couple parasuckers, and fixed breakers. Gabe’s been put out to pasture, but maybe Geist’s ability will enable this type of build with his non-run based econ.
Fall Guy isn’t bad for 2 credits and a card. Easy Mark isn’t bad when you’re drawing a ton passively. Muertos looks strong for Geist. Crescentus as well. He could make E3 and Grappling Hook a staple, especially with clone chips. (I’ll take 2-3 cards while I walk through that Curtain Wall and derez it, thanks.)
[quote=“Danwarr, post:903, topic:2197, full:true”]
I think the best thing about Grappling Hook + E3 is that it can kill OAI Curtain Walls for 1 credit. Plus, E3s are great for Bioroid ice, which are generally pretty expensive to break and tend to be higher strength so that might be an issue for the B&E suite.
[/quote]Fair enough, but if you do run Breach it deals with most of 'em, and the B&E suite can hit the point of handling the rest. E3 might be useful, I’m just not convinced it’s useful enough to be worth 5 or 6 cards in what might end up being a pretty tight deck.
[quote=“kenobob, post:904, topic:2197”]
UC, and the Supplier in general, seem too slow and janky to be top tier. I love me some passive economy, but it’s just not effective outside of Kate’s PPVPs and Noise’s Aesop’d Caches
[/quote]I’d have said the same, but Qimpossible (Quetzal deck) has made me wonder if it might not be so bad in a deck that’s running the necessary stuff anyway. It’s not quite as sure as there (data folding is easier to guarantee than UWC), but if you need 2 Link anyway the passive econ seems worth it, especially in a deck that seems liable to be trying to hit midgame more than most Crim decks and doesn’t need huge bursts of cash anyway.
[quote=“kenobob, post:904, topic:2197”]
Maybe Geist is better without the B&E and extra link. Just splash Clone Chips, a couple parasuckers, and fixed breakers. Gabe’s been put out to pasture, but maybe Geist’s ability will enable this type of build with his non-run based econ.
[/quote]This is also very possible. I think there’s a minimum number needed, but as much as I think the B&E Suite is worth a shot there’s a solid chance that a trashing-heavy Reg-Ass Crim will be a better build for him.
[quote=“kenobob, post:904, topic:2197”]
Fall Guy isn’t bad for 2 credits and a card. Easy Mark isn’t bad when you’re drawing a ton passively. Muertos looks strong for Geist. Crescentus as well. He could make E3 and Grappling Hook a staple, especially with clone chips. (I’ll take 2-3 cards while I walk through that Curtain Wall and derez it, thanks.)
[/quote]Not sure about Easy Mark, but Fall Guy for sure, yeah. (Doubles as protection if you do Crash Space or UWC against a tagging deck.) I’m not sure if Crescentus works well without the B&E Suite, though. My thought for including it was that between the B&Es and Zu you’ve got a tonne of spare memory to fill with Crescentuses or whatnot. Parasucker takes more memory than that, I feel like.
Either your corp deck has a lot of agendas and I get a lot of bounces, or your corp deck has few agendas, and every bounce I do get is going to make your life fucking miserable.
Also, free Ronin/Overwriter disables and free Siphons against FA bullshit.
You really should actually play her to find out why it’s such a great ID.
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Im thinking ditch B&E.
3 Clone Chips, 3 SOT, 3 Crescentus, 3 Peddler, 1 Shard seems to be enough draw.
I know its already 10 Inf but still…thats 13 cards that recycle.
Yeah, Peddler is intriguing, and SOT fetches any lost events.
Funnily enough, Cortez Chip isn’t worthless in Geist either. It’s essentially clicking for a card while costing the corp 2 credits, or using it to gain a key access, or to destroy a key piece of ice with forged.
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