The Renovation is way better than Corporate War which the Blue Sun Boot Camp Glacier have been running as a one of. Basically, it lets you advance the agenda while also clicking for credits, which is good. It’s a good tempo play.
Geothermal Fracking is also no go in Glacier decks since the bad pub makes taxing way harder.
So overall, the OTR is good agenda for Weyland decks that are trying to avoid bad pub.
[quote=“whatisthistreachery, post:1830, topic:2197”]
If I’m running a 4/2, I want Geothermal or Atlas or NAPD.
[/quote]You’re already running Atlas, don’t want Bad Pub, and find yourself frequently a few credits short to defend your agenda. Boom, Oaktown.
NAPD is almost certainly better right now for Vegan BS Glacier decks, but they have to run Corp War for the last slot, and Oaktown is much better than that. Similarish payout with less of a sunk cost if they score it (actually, factoring in the costs of advancing, Oaktown nets you 4-6 credits and Corp War only nets you 3), a small boost in credits to rez things to defend it (not a HUGE problem for BS usually, but not unappreciated), and no crushing downside if they manage to get you below the threshold for scoring) in such a way as to prevent bouncing ice back to hand (rare, but I’ve seen it happen).
Running 2 NAPD and 2 Oaktown right now, but that’s just to get used to Oaktown and will soon return to being 3 NAPD and 1 Oaktown unless something changes drastically.
Same comparison with Geothermal Fracking, though. Oaktown nets 4-6 depending on if you IAA>AAA or just score it normally. Geothermal nets you 10 credits AND 2 bad pub for one to two extra clicks. If you only use the first counter it’s only netting you 3 and a bad pub, and the click you used to take money off could’ve either been overadvancing Oaktown or just clicking for credits anyway, making the renovation more cost-effective than Geothermal if you don’t fire it twice (which I’ve seen many people avoid doing).
Even then, looking at Nebula and other destroyers and comparing with Grim, and looking at putting ice walls in front of servers to kill the BP advantage, I’d weight bad pub as costing 2-3 credits, myself, at the very least. Not really the right kind of math, but if each BP is 2 credits “lost” then Geothermal is STILL only just equivalent to Oaktown in economic payout, and over a longer period.
Of course, in Titan and/or with Mark Yale, Geothermal’s make changes pretty heavily, but that’s not an issue right now really. That IS, however, about the only place I’d play Geothermal these days, due to how very painful I’ve been finding bad pub of late.
The other thing Oaktown does is help non-BS Weyland IDs build up economy more easily, allowing them too to nearly go broke defending an agenda (as Oaktown only requires 1 credit to keep scoring out), and giving them more up front cash with which to DEFEND said agenda in the first place. The number of games as a rush-y Weyland deck that I’ve been frustrated by needing another turn to get money before scoring, only to have the window close…
It does let them know that it’s an agenda, but you’ll still have Atlas and other things for bluffing with, and you’re Weyland. Aside from maaaybe Shattered Remains or, what, GRNDL Refinery? You weren’t running enough traps to make it a mystery really in the first place.
TL;DR – Oaktown has a better payout than other 4/2s that give money, don’t let the bigger numbers on other cards fool you.
Wouldn’t it be the other way around? On the runner’s turn they hit Data Mine and say “Ah hah! I have priority and Titanium Ribs means I pick which card gets discarded.” Then the corp says “Okay, now my abilities that trigger from damage happen, and mine say I get to pick. Sorry, better luck next time.” Then when it’s the corp’s turn it’s just the opposite.
This is all assuming that both of these effects are actually conditional abilities (Conditional Ability | Android Netrunner Comprehensive Unofficial Rules Wiki | Fandom). Also, interesting sidenote, if this is correct then on the corp’s turn they would still look at the runner’s hand, choose a card, then the runner could just trash a different card.
Thanks for the write up. I concede completely, you are absolutely correct. Oaktown Reno beats out Geothermal in almost all cases outside Titan, and that is the only place its played currently, and only in the Butchershoppish style.
I have seen the light! and it burns
Hopefully, if you’re playing Weyland, it’s burning everyone else.
Then again, I suppose Weyland owned the properties targeted by that latest wave of terrorist attacks. 
I think that’s incorrect.
Firstly, once one of the triggers has resolved, the damage has been resolved (read: card or cards have been discarded) and there is nothing left for the other trigger to do. (The closest comparison that comes to mind is the Foundry in the middle of an ABT - the top three cards are no longer there when you resolve the Foundry’s ability, so the remaining trigger (i.e. the rest of the ABT) no longer happens as its subject has disappeared.)
Secondly, if the above turns out not to be true (I doubt it); let’s say the Runner has priority, then that doesn’t automatically mean the Runner’s triggers happen first; that simply means that they get to choose the order. So if the triggers happen backwards then the Runner can choose to resolve them backwards; let the Corp pick, then the Runner gets to override the Corp’s choice.
Either way, on the Runner’s turn, they are able to choose the triggers in the way that is beneficial to them, and likewise for the Corp on their turn.
I want a lockdown playmat.
I’m wondering about Quicksand in a Next deck. We all know that the drawback of Next Silver is that it melts to parasites. The runner will want to be Parasiting both Silvers and Quicksands before they get out of control. Plan would be to stretch their parasites thin. I might give it a shot.
[quote=“shinygerbil, post:1839, topic:2197”]
Firstly, once one of the triggers has resolved, the damage has been resolved (read: card or cards have been discarded) and there is nothing left for the other trigger to do.[/quote]
I’m not sure that that’s the case in this situation. Titanium Ribs reads:
When you install Titanium Ribs, suffer 2 meat damage.
You choose the card(s) from your grip to trash whenever you take damage (including the damage taken by installing Titanium Ribs).
It doesn’t specify that they are immediately trashed, just that you choose the ones to trash. There is another trigger floating, so I think it can also resolve.
This is a common misconception. If you look at the ancur link in my original post you you will see that according to Page 22, Column 1, Paragraph(s) 4 or the Core Rule Book the active player’s effects always happen first.
I’m not positive that things will happen the way I said originally, but I think it’s at least possible.
I don’t think this is the case. As far as I’m aware, all of the runner’s triggers resolve first, in the order of the runner’s choosing, then all of the corp’s triggers resolve in the order of the corp player’s choosing. Priority means your stuff resolves first, or you have the first chance to act in a paid ability window. The runner doesn’t get to choose to let one (or all) of the corp’s triggers resolve before the runner’s triggers resolve on the runner’s turn, and they definitely don’t get to choose the resolve order of the corp’s triggers if the corp has multiple things that trigger at once.
Ah, thanks both of you, you’re correct on that point! My bad.
[quote=“westonodom, post:1842, topic:2197”]
It doesn’t specify that they are immediately trashed, just that you choose the ones to trash. There is another trigger floating, so I think it can also resolve.
[/quote]I feel like that would be weird and counter-intuitive, despite being a literal interpretation; I rather suspect (hope) that as part of resolving the “choose which cards to trash” effect, you choose and trash them. I think they have just taken a little bit of a linguistic shortcut there. They probably just assumed that we would assume the cards get trashed as part of the trigger - wouldn’t surprise me!
It’s hard to say, as the Steelskin kerfluffle proved that although you choose cards for damage one at a time, they are not trashed until all of them have been chosen and all can be trashed simultaneously. I think it’s unfortunately kind of ambiguous (though I personally agree that it probably makes the most “intuitive” sense that once a card is chosen for damage that’s it for that point of damage).
One issue with Titanium Ribs / Chronos Protocol is that they are both worded as static effects or replacement effects, not triggered abilities. I’m not sure if there is a difference in netrunner? I know there is in mtg.
There is a difference. In Netrunner there are constant abilitis and triggered abilities, which are further broken down into paid and conditional.
Titanium Ribs is definitely a conditional triggered ability (uses the “whenever” convention). Chronos Protocol is trickier. It seems to be worded like a conditional ability, but we should assume it is a constant one until we get confirmation from Lukas.
I feel like Quicksand is never going to get out of control against the current runner meta. It’s decent when runners are making multiple runs a turn, or running R&D literally every turn to try to lock (like Sucker Andy), but even then it’s questionable whether it’s better than Eli. PPVP Kate is going to run on the same server maybe, what, 5 times at most in a single game?
The idea that Quicksand is going to grow into some 9 strength monster or something just doesn’t seem realistic to me, so I don’t think there’s going to be that pressure on runners to spend Parasites on it.
I play a single NAPD in my Blue Sun Mushin Grid deck (Off the Grid + Crisium). I think Oaktown Renovation will be a pretty s1kk replacement. That’s not only a fringe deck though, but a pretty bad deck at that. I do, however, look forward to landing that combo at some point.
Mushin doesn’t work with Public agendas like you would hope.
Thank you. I missed that.
very janky, but you could use mushin to get to 5 advancement counters faster 
Then you just have a Capital Investors except it’s an agenda