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Seidr Laboratories - Interweaving Archives and HQ

#1

I’m wondering why nobody is hyped with this ID as me.

Look at what I’ve been building and had some success online (I know, I know):

Adaptive Bioroids

Seidr Laboratories: Destiny Defined

Agenda (9)
3x Accelerated Beta Test
1x Corporate Sales Team
2x Global Food Initiative ●●
3x Project Vitruvius

Asset (9)
3x Jackson Howard ●●●
3x Marilyn Campaign
3x Snare! ●●●●● ●

Operation (14)
1x An Offer You Can’t Refuse ●●●
2x Biotic Labor
1x Enhanced Login Protocol
3x Hedge Fund
3x IPO
3x Lateral Growth
1x Subliminal Messaging

Barrier (6)
2x Eli 1.0
1x Eli 2.0
3x Seidr Adaptive Barrier

Code Gate (9)
1x Enigma
2x Fairchild 3.0
3x Ravana 1.0
2x Turing
1x Weir

Sentry (2)
1x Architect
1x Ichi 1.0

14 influence spent (max 15, available 1)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Terminal Directive

I believe the ID ability is great to get back economy cards and Snares. I really liked that in those old days of ANR when HB:ETF ran Snare! to kill. Now, Seidr gives you the ability to recur Snares! onto RnD and into HQ so it always feels more spicy.
Of course runners hesitate to run against this, that’s why Subliminal Messaging, Merilyn and for the 7th point, a one-of of “An Offer You Can’t Refuse” to encourage them.

#2

I would put Trolls in there.
And Rurh Valley, and ELPs.

#3

honestly, the lack of hype is ‘it’s not EtF’ tbh

i think it’s a good ID, but you do need plenty of operations to recur that are usable. the Lateral Growth is great here
i also think the clearances are good too (except violet, cos the runner can just trash it). i hadn’t considered Subliminal. that’s pretty awesome actually, getting more than one way to get it out of the bin. in that case, i’d be very tempted to go for something with Jeeves and Shipment from SanSan for a bunch of FA potential

i have a feeling that trying to recur Snare!s will be a trap though, but i’m interested to hear your experience

i don’t like Seidr Adaptive Barrier in general, but i think it just generally does less work in this deck. i’d honestly rather slot in Markus 1.0 instead (same starting str, clickable for ID ability and the runner must respect the first sub)
i’m also not much of a fan of Eli 2.0, especially if you’re cutting an Eli 1.0 for it. it’s the same to break for Paperclip, which is the fracter you’re going to see most often
i’m liking the code gates and sentries though, especially Weir. excited to try that one out in anything, but i think it’s great here

i’m unsure what An Offer You Can’t Refuse is meant to do. they won’t have any clicks to lose if they take the run. what is it meant to do?

also, you have no upgrades to help secure your scoring windows and only 2 biotic labours for FA. i think this deck will have a hard time securing scores tbh

#4

Here’s my first attempt. Basically Heinlein + Mason and use the ability to recur clearances.

Seidr Laboratories: Destiny Defined

Agenda (10)
2x False Lead
2x Global Food Initiative ●●
3x NAPD Contract ★★★
3x Project Vitruvius

Asset (3)
3x Jackson Howard ●●●

Upgrade (6)
3x Heinlein Grid
3x Mason Bellamy

Operation (13)
2x Blue Level Clearance
2x Friends in High Places
3x Green Level Clearance
3x Hedge Fund
2x Psychokinesis ●●●●
1x Ultraviolet Clearance

Barrier (5)
3x Eli 1.0
2x Eli 2.0

Code Gate (7)
3x Enigma
2x Tapestry
2x Viper

Sentry (5)
3x Architect ★★★
2x Ichi 1.0

15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Terminal Directive

#5

ELP is in, Ruhr Valley not. They don’t work with the ID ability.

#6

also Ronald Five might be worth a look

#7

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it a lot!

Snares! are just awesome. More seriously, the tag and net dmg are nice, the cost is ok and runners knowing they might hit it is like another, psychological barrier. They just think twice before running (maybe that’s just me, being more of a Jinteki guy).

I don’t like going all-in on the ID, because - I learned that lesson years ago with Stronger Together - you also need hard end-the-run-subs. And Seidr Adaptive is really doing some work in a meta where everyone techs against dangerous Code Gates.

Eli 2 is not great, true. But a 1-of is ok. When runners click through it and give you the ID trigger, you get something like an out-of-turn Archived Memories. That’s nice to recur econ and BLs.

I slotted AOYCR in because I can throw runners into bioroids they can’t click, suffer some subs - or i get my seventh point.

I know, no real upgrades to defend the remote is bad, but I am relying on my bluffing skills (Snare? Agenda? Merilyn? Unknown card?) and BL.

#8

Ok, Trolls, then. Pay 2 or either ETR / loose a click.

#9

I feel like I have a couple of ideas floating around but haven’t been able to solidify them, mostly because I don’t have the TD and most recent Red Sands cycle cards memorized or internalized yet.

As a dedicated HB and Shaper player, I am very excited to try out both Seidr and Bios. I think primarily operation-based economy decks will do well here. I played a more operation-heavy hybrid FA/glacier ETF deck back at Regionals last year, because it was more resilient to Whizzard. I learned that it tends to run faster than campaign-based HB decks because of the extra card draw, which is great. It lends itself well to rush/FA approaches.

Does ELP actually work with the ID ability? I thought you paid the extra click as an additional cost to initiate the run, rather then spend it during the run. Don’t have Seidr in front of me at the moment, though.

#10

Ronnie 5+ asset spam.

It’s pretty gross if your opponent isn’t on slums or archives interface.

#11

The deck in the OP needs Mason Bellamy. Our thoughts on the ID from last night was that the ID ability only ever fires when the runner is running on the Mason server.

#12

In 4 games the ID ability never fired due to my opponent always running last click. This leads me to believe you need to find ways to punish or capitalize on last click runs. Not sure what the best way to do that is.

Seidr may be an ID you don’t use primarily for what it does but rather for how it makes you opponent play differently, similar to quetzal or kit.

#13

off the top of my head: Snare!, Ryon Knight, Strongbox, and def upgrades that force more runs like Black Level Clearance, Caprice, and Ash

#14

Prisec, Sherlock, Scorched Earth/Boom!

#15

What cards did you run that you think specifically influenced their decision to run last click? Because I find that really intriguing, and I would like to know how to replicate it consistently.

I think there are a lot of neat cards we could use here, but I’m specifically looking for ideas and asking for help to find answers to these:

  1. What deckbuilding strategy works better in this deck than in ETF or other HB identities?

  2. What game plan or win strategy works best with that deck?

#16

I think having the runner run last click against HB is pretty great in and of itself. Facechecking HB ice with no clicks is a pretty bad strategy. Never mind the upgrades that @dr00 mentioned.

#17

I think the ID itself (plus Mason Belamy) encourage last click runs. If the runner can’t lose a click on a run, the ID won’t fire. Therefore, run last click. That’s what makes me think cards that punish last click runs are worth trying out. Strongbox is the first thing that comes to mind.

My answer to both these questions is I don’t know yet. I have only played it in Terminal Directive so far so I haven’t gotten to the rest of the cardpool yet. My strategy in TD is fast advance and try to get my biotic labors back. Also, I want to use really taxing ice. If you aren’t going to click through it, you will need to pay a lot of credits. So never advance can work as well.

I guess the main difference between Seidr and EtF is the incentive to run last click. Find a way to punish that and we might be on to something.

#18

One of the axioms of Netrunner has always been that running last click is a bad decision. Even a podcast calls itself like that in an ironical way. So when runners get tempted to run last click, I’m fine with it.
So let’s capitalize on that.

Like I said before, a Snare! is a wonderful surprise for such situations and stings even better when touched on last click.
My approach is to make myself clear that runners tend to a) run last click, b) don’t run or c) run when their breakers are on the table so they don’t have to click. Because Seidr’s ability is one of those you can’t control as corp (unlike ETF). So you have to force the runner to not blank your ID.

That’s why I’m going that route:
a) use Snares, Strongbox and PriSec (and other utilies) that punish runners who run last click.
b) use Subliminal Messaging. Think what Tennin would do.
c) snipe breakers. 1x Aggressiver Secretary is hilarious. And I really really like what @cmcadvanced proposed: Sherlock 2.0 looks very solid in doing several of these tasks I mentioned.

I think that’s a point from where we can move on.

#19

A friend and I made a draft of an HB kill deck using some of these strategies. Untested yet but thought I’d share.

In particular, I worry it will be too light on economy, but I wanted to toy around with Marilyn and see how it does with that for economy. Seems like it would fold quickly to Salsette Slums, so I may need to reassess and switch to more operation economy.

Scorched is a cheeky move that most people don’t expect from HB. Curious how it pans out. Plan is to score out if they don’t run, or kill if they do. Didn’t think about Subliminal but I like it! Not sure where to fit that in.

HB Kill

Seidr Laboratories: Destiny Defined (Terminal Directive)

Agenda (9)

Asset (9)

Upgrade (6)

Operation (9)

Barrier (5)

Code Gate (9)

Sentry (2)

15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Terminal Directive

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

#20

More Ronald Five, trashing Snares and prisecs will either cost them clicks, or let you play shell corporation