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The Stealth Answer (continuation of "The Killer Problem)


#1

It seems like that last thread was getting derailed, and I certainly have more to add re: stealth breakers.

The more I play the stealth suite and trounce sentries I think the answer is to have only 1 stealth breaker. I say this because it takes a considerable amount of time and some luck to get the parts you need to make the breaker work. While I’ve had some success against fast advance, I can see those decks being the most challenging to play against. Once they see you’re going to dilly-dally with stealth breakers they are going to start scoring away which means you have to get set up immediately.

@SamRS That deck list looks good to me. As noted, the lack of Faerie makes me kind of worried. How do you deal with sentries before you have all your stealth breaker parts? Playing with only 1 ghost runner means you don’t have a guaranteed way to break multiple sentry ICE, which means a wise opponent just has to stack sentries. How would you work around something like 2x Architect on R&D? While this deck (and switchblade specifically) can handle sentry ICE very efficiently, Faerie is good for early game aggression and for late game when the corp stacks the sentries up in an effort to keep you out.

I played in a 16 man tournament at The Soldiery in Columbus, Ohio and tied for first (ended in 3rd w/ SOS… fortunately my buddy and cohost of “Wait, Wait… Don’t Run Me!” Ross won or I might have been a little butthurt). I played a version of the Andromeda deck I posted earlier with some slight alterations. Undefeated on the day against 2x Blue Sun, 1x HB Core FA, 1x NBN NEH Dedicated Response. Here’s what I rolled with:

Silencio! (45 cards)

Andromeda: Dispossessed Ristie

Event (15)
3 Account Siphon
3 Dirty Laundry
3 Legwork
3 Special Order
3 Sure Gamble

Hardware (13)
3 Desperado
1 Feedback Filter
2 Plascrete Carapace
2 R&D Interface
3 Silencer
2 The Personal Touch

Resource (7)
1 Bank Job
2 Earthrise Hotel
2 Ghost Runner
2 Security Testing

Icebreaker (7)
1 Corroder
3 Faerie
1 Passport
1 Switchblade
1 Yog.0

Program (3)
3 Datasucker

The personal touches were put in after seeing the deficiency of the deck for dealing with lotus field. Someone said I was “like an old man, clinging to YOG.0”, but even with the personal touch the breaker is so much more efficient than any other fracter. I don’t want to spend the influence or credits on another codegate breaker.


#2

I’ve been testing a lot of Stealth Andy recently and it’s the real deal. I disagree that it’s correct to only play one stealth card - having a combination can be sometimes even better (as it makes it better to have more stealth cards and therefore consistency around the board goes up). Three is probably a mistake (even if there was a good fracter) and is definitely a mistake when your only choice is BlackKat.

It works with Refractor too, and what makes the deck good is that you make even the best servers look like a joke - you can convert your stealth credits to real money/efficiency with Security Testing/John. Refractor is actually a good code gate breaker, which is refreshing as Criminal!

You do need to run Cloaks, but this can just up consistency across the board, though - you tend to get your bits and bobs pretty early - ready to go a lot faster.

Switchblade is most certainly the best non-Mimic Sentry breaker they’ve printed so far, though. It’s a monster against RP. I’ve been extremely impressed with Stealth Andy so far, though I feel she’s by far the best place for the build to work - I’m sure I don’t need to convince anyone she’s good at having a good turn one set-up.

The list I’ve been most happy with is this one - http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/jbDLnXwegMRZhRG5v/ - though the shell’s about 40 cards. There’s not much room to wiggle around but it can be done a bit.


#3

I think stealth sentry breaker is the answer. For Criminals: switchblade + silencers + (maybe a ghost runner or two) + mimic for the smaller sentries (2 copies cost just 2 influence). For Shapers: dagger (I know, I know, it’s not as good as switchblade but is great too, plus, you just need one cloak at the beginning) + cloaks + ghost runner or two + mimic. The shaper one could probably do with a refractor too! Just add a couple of lockpicks. An all-stealth rig is definitely bad and corroder costs so little influence!


#4

I think having Silencer/Switchblade/Ghost Runner and Yog/Personal Touch is less consistent than having Cloak/Refractor/Switchblade/Silencer/Ghost Runner, although it’s more debatable given the Datasucker support. Still, in a Switchblade/Refractor list, Cloak and Ghost Runner each support both of your stealth breakers.

@Xenasis – is Breach for the Blue Sun matchup?


#5

I like getting through a Pup for only 1 Silencer credit.


#6

Yeah, it’s one the deck’s worst matchups without it, and 5c less for a Curtain Wall is sweet.

It also functions as a backup breaker too in a deck without influence spare for Corroder #2.


#7

I think refractor actually makes the deck because it means there are no big holes in your rig once you are fully setup, which doesn’t take long!


#8

Yeah I agree. When so much of your deck is geared towards stealth cards already, missing out on such a good code gate breaker feels like a big mistake. It’s crazily efficient.


#9

Dagger blows. Against both RP and NEH it’s just a shitty Mimic, as opposed to Switchblade, which is horrifying.

If you’re running Stealth out of Shaper and not willing to use Switchblade for whatever reason, the way to do it is probably by running Refractor and a Mimic / Datasucker suite for sentries, with Dagger as a thing you can pull out if you start to see a bunch of big ones.

I haven’t played that Stealth Andy deck, but I’ve played against it, and it’s the first runner deck to really strike fear in my heart (as RP) in a loooooong time.


#10

Femme and datasucker both help immensely with long sentry servers, and it’s not hard to get sucker tokens with a switchblade, so double architect usually costs 3-6 sucker tokens or gets broken with femme, although the memory requirements for that kind of stuff have put me back on RDI. The influence is flexible enough that you can afford a mimic pretty easily, and I greatly prefer having a datasucker installed over a cloak.


#11

Having datasucker was mandatory as far as I was concerned. I really don’t like cloak for several reasons: the influence cost, the memory cost and the reliability of getting it in Criminal without a way to tutor for it. 2 Influence is a lot when you’ve got so many moving parts. Another problem with a second stealth breaker is that it is going to suck up your stealth currency and good corp players will play to that disadvantage.

Circling back- I think the faerie compliments the weaknesses of switchblade very well because you can start running without the setup required that may not happen quickly. I do like the Breach idea against curtain wall, and as a secondary breaker.


#12

My testing has also shown that 1x stealth is probably the right move outside of shaper. I think shaper might be able to get away with 2x stealth breakers; I think leaning back on Lady for barriers is far superior to black-cat anyways.

I’d think rex would be good enough in criminal as well.

Though, I think cloak would probably be in my crim deck if memory was something I had a plan for.


#13

I’ve been having a lot of luck running 2x Mimic/1x Switchblade and 2x Refractor/1x Gordian in a pawnshop Kate build I’m working on (ProCon + Pawnshop + 1-cost stuff -> 2 clicks = 4 creds + card). I only run Cloaks and my default rig is fracter + Mimic + Refractor. If I need to (Archer, Komainu, Tsurugi), I’ll trade up into Switchblade and then sell Refractor for Gordian to take pressure off the Cloaks.


#14

I’ve ran against and as Andy that looked close to your build. Love Express Deliveries, nice touch I did not think of.
Main difference is presence of 3x Kati Jones. Also no programs besides Switchblade (maybe two for consistency), Refractor, Corroder and Cloaks.
Stealth suite means your runs cost next to zero, Security Testing and Kati Jones mean that you have PILES OF MONEY LYING AROUND. I mean… really piles. 20+ is common.

Kati is good in this build because money she brings are flexible money you can use for whatever (unlike niche solutions like Breach). Kati credits can bust Curtain Walls, trash SanSans, dodge MSR, pay for Ash trace and fuel Feedback Filter. All-around strong.

This archetype is horrifying. It setups extremely fast (because Andromeda and Special Orders). And once setup its unstoppable.

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/13364/i-run-with-the-cheats (note the notes)


#15

I love the card, and it’s best in stealth Andy, I think one or two is definitely correct. Three may be excessive but I’ve been happy with seeing it every time I do. It really helps get the set-up rolling.

Kati is fine, yeah. I’d probably not go for more than two though - the build doesn’t need to rely on her for money at all. Never needed her myself and I’d rather have the deckslots for other cards, or tech Bank Job for NEH. It could be a preference thing though, definitely a good card.


#16

Ja, will definitely play with Deliveries. The extremely seldom losses I’ve encountered so far were due to inconsistency in breaker setup, and Deliveries do patch up this issue.

You should keep Kati. And you want her in your opener to build up asap, hence 3 copies. Every Corp deck in the meta presents you with some sort of a challenge you can’t solve directly with Stealth credits, but you can solve it with Kati credits, be it Curtain Walls, multiple must-trash assets/upgrades or must-beat traces. Being able to meet those challenges without losing tempo is what Kati offers, and playing without her makes the deck as a whole alot weaker.


#17

No Faerie and singleton breakers. Seems ballsy.

I would prefer 2nd Corroder over 3rd Cloak (which you can’t fit in your rig anyway), Passport and an extra Switchblade plus 3 Faerie in there. This means probably cutting Siphons, JohnM and probably the 3rd Special Order.

This gives you a quicker, more consistent rig set up and bails you out should you lose a breaker.

You have too many valuable resources to go tag me, so Siphon is just a timed attack or economy card. Frankly, Stealth and Security Testing has econ covered. The loss of big Siphon turns sucks, but stealth means you can attack every single turn without running out of gas.


#18

Well you need the special order to get the Rig as fast as possible. And the Cloak is a really nice addition since early on can be also used as recurring creds for the coroder or the Refractor (especially good against NEH for wraparounds and small code gates).

This is the list I am using for the league for the last matches that really made my ranking go up (although I just lost a game as corp and my ranking plummeted a bit). There are some one-offs (like Kati Jones) that are useful for certain match-ups.

Ballsy indeed but this is the answer IMHO against the sheer power of the corporations now.

Stealth Andy For SH League

Andromeda: Dispossessed Ristie (Humanity’s Shadow)

Event (19)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
2x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
3x Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus)
1x Express Delivery (Honor and Profit)
1x Hostage (Opening Moves)
1x Inside Job (Core Set)
2x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
3x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (11)
3x Desperado (Core Set)
1x Feedback Filter (Creation and Control)[color=#32CD32] •[/color]
2x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
2x R&D Interface (Future Proof)[color=#32CD32] ••••[/color]
3x Silencer (Double Time)

Resource (8)
3x Ghost Runner (The Spaces Between)
1x John Masanori (Opening Moves)
1x Kati Jones (Humanity’s Shadow)
3x Security Testing (Honor and Profit)

Icebreaker (4)
1x Corroder (Core Set)[color=#FF4500] ••[/color]
1x Crypsis (Core Set)
1x Refractor (First Contact)[color=#32CD32] ••[/color]
1x Switchblade (Up and Over)

Program (3)
3x Cloak (Creation and Control)[color=#32CD32] ••••• •[/color]

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Up and Over

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

Shutdowns are for Blue Sun match-ups, you can change them with other utility cards or more copies of Masanori and breakers.

Feedback Filter is there for PE but you can replace it with Quality time just for the draw power.

This list is based on the list that @Matuszczak was using and had the first rank on the league until he started playing Noise for some reason. :frowning:


#19

…or you could just use a Morning Star like a real man, with The Professor as your ID :smiley:

(have a list, didn’t test yet, probably blows)


#20

just need a plan for blue sun barriers, but otherwise it can be done.