Valencia, the combo Anarch?

Ilza · March 2, 2015, 12:52pm

Has anyone played something similar to RegAss-Valencia and done well in a Store Championship yet?
Have a deck brewing but with limited playtesting, so far I’ve only seen Eater+Keyhole and really dislike that rig.

gumOnShoe · March 2, 2015, 1:15pm

If they have they haven’t posted here. You can crawl through the NRDB pages though and maybe there will be something there. The biggest oppositional force to it is that if you’re only going to play 1 zu in 50 cards you’re probably not going to see it. Also, you’ve got bad pub so you should be playing blackmail. I think I’ve heard people are trying things out that are like that, but you’re going to want cards that make a 50 card deck significantly more fluid with draw/tutoring. Honestly, Valencia is a great place for Anarch-Voicepad. I think you can play a more standard rig, figure out your lotus field out, and just go in on events. Its a very consistent line of play and at this point anarch events are the most damaging events in the game. Going this route over blackmail (which I’d still include) or eater/keyhole, your package would look more like this:

12 Economy:
3x Lucky Find
3x Sure Gamble (6inf)
3x Dirty Laundry
3x Day Job

3x Prepaid Voicepad

Draw:
3x Inject
3x I’ve Had worse

3x Deja Vu
3x Blackmail
1x Levy (3inf)

Some amount of fork/knifed/spooned/wanton/same old

Breakers:
2x Atman (6inf)
3x Corroder
3x Mimic
3x Yog
3x Data Sucker

nerve/medium + a memory solution, possibly memstrips.

Possibly duggars and a reduction in slots dedicated to breakers. I think you’re looking at a more standard build. You can play atman+suckers after getting a mimic installed to get through most things. Having one at 4 will help with lotus. If you don’t think you’ll see that card you can put the atman at 5/6 and get some great savings on suckers. Its not regass, but I don’t think it should be. You don’t have the card draw to really rely on a single zu or 6 breaker slots. You aren’t throwing things in the bin to reuse, etc.

Ilza · March 2, 2015, 1:33pm

Thanks for the list!

I have some doubts regarding qulity when browsing through published lists on NetrunnerDB and was hoping someone here had a list brewing. My own (not very tested) version:

Valencia Test

Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe (Order and Chaos)

Event (16)
3x Blackmail (Fear and Loathing)
2x Day Job (Order and Chaos)
3x I’ve Had Worse (Order and Chaos)
3x Inject (Up and Over)
2x Knifed (Order and Chaos)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (5)
3x Clone Chip (Creation and Control) ••••• •
2x Grimoire (Core Set)

Resource (11)
3x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
3x Earthrise Hotel (The Source)
2x Liberated Account (Trace Amount)
3x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)

Icebreaker (7)
2x Corroder (Core Set)
1x Femme Fatale (Core Set) •
2x Mimic (Core Set)
1x Yog.0 (Core Set)
1x ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead) ••

Program (11)
3x Datasucker (Core Set)
3x Medium (Core Set)
3x Parasite (Core Set)
2x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control) ••••• •
15 influence spent (max 15)
50 cards (min 50)
Cards up to Order and Chaos

I’m not sold on running Inject with that many programs, but it might be worth scaling back on some of the viruses to fit a few more events. Also pondering Special Order versus Self-Modifying Code. Should probably fit 1-2 Kati Jones in there as well.

aandries · March 2, 2015, 3:00pm

Been working my version of the Medium Mail style deck myself. Further testing this week, but this is where I’ve currently landed:

gumOnShoe · March 2, 2015, 3:07pm

For that deck inject might be a hard call. I run 3x Deja & 3x Same Old, so if a program goes into the bin, I have a way of getting it back. You’ll find my deck list further up and its not RegAss at all. I might suggest for this deck trying out a single planned assault over a clone chip. You’ll find you can really lean on blackmail during the set-up phase of a game. But looking at the deck I think my real concern is economy.

3x Sure Gamble
2x Day Job
3x Daily Casts
2x Liberated Account

That’s 10 temporary sources of income. RegAss leans heavily on Kati; VoicePad decks lean a lot heavier on other economic sources and run a lot more events that make them money. The blackmail and bad pub are good, but they aren’t that good if there’s only a single badpub around. If the standard deck runs 12-16 sources of economy, this deck either needs a bunch of cheap draw (not Earthrise) or more economy since you’ve got 5 more cards to deal with. Frankly, drawing economy is better than drawing a card that might draw you economy.

So, I do have concerns about the deck.

This was the original regass deck, so this is probably where we should start if we’re going to make a Valencia version. What does it do? It throttles early aggression and recursion into a consistent right with a little bit of removal and dig.

Reg-ass Maxx (45 cards)

Maxx: Maximum Punk Rock

Event (15)
2 Deja Vu
3 I’ve Had Worse
2 Knifed
1 Legwork **
1 Levy AR Lab Access ***
1 Lucky Find **
1 Queen’s Gambit
1 Stimhack
3 Sure Gamble

Hardware (5)
3 Clone Chip ** ** **
2 Grimoire

Resource (10)
3 Daily Casts
3 Kati Jones
2 Liberated Account
2 Same Old Thing

Icebreaker (6)
2 Corroder
2 Mimic
1 Yog.0
1 ZU.13 Key Master **

Program (9)
1 D4v1d
2 Datasucker
2 Imp
1 Medium
3 Parasite

So, you’re pretty close. I think 3x medium is overkill having played valencia. 2x is probably enough. Your extra inf has gone into Modifying Codes, let me suggest a less expensive alternative and a deck list that’s between the three views: mine, yours, & dan’s. This is untested, but it looks more like what a RegAss Valencia would look like to me. I have no idea if the breakers are consistant, but I think I can vouch for the economic package and I think that by making your program seeker an event, inject gets better for you. There’s no levy in the deck because I don’t think your plan is to run through the entire thing, though its possible to do that. If a program you need goes into the bin you’ll have to lean on deja, but that’s probably better than drawing 4 cards over 4 clicks.

Blackmail is your early game pressure in this deck instead of parasite, and you have 1x of each silverware that you can planned assault for to take out anything you really don’t want to deal with. Its event toolbox, basically. You still have the legwork. In some ways you’re a lot slower, but in others you’re more disruptive.

SameOldValencia

Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe (Order and Chaos)

Event (27)

3x Blackmail (Fear and Loathing)
3x Day Job (Order and Chaos)
2x Déjà Vu (Core Set)
1x Forked (Order and Chaos)
3x I’ve Had Worse (Order and Chaos)
3x Inject (Up and Over)
1x Knifed (Order and Chaos)
1x Legwork (Honor and Profit) ••
1x Lucky Find (Double Time) ••
2x Planned Assault (Honor and Profit) ••••
2x Special Order (Core Set) ••••
1x Spooned (Order and Chaos)
1x Stimhack (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (5)

2x Grimoire (Core Set)
3x Prepaid VoicePAD (Second Thoughts)

Resource (6)

3x Kati Jones (Humanity’s Shadow)
2x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
1x Utopia Shard (All That Remains) •

Icebreaker (6)

2x Corroder (Core Set)
2x Mimic (Core Set)
1x Yog.0 (Core Set)
1x ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead) ••

Program (6)

2x Datasucker (Core Set)
2x Imp (What Lies Ahead)
2x Medium (Core Set)

15 influence spent (max 15)
50 cards (min 50)
Cards up to Order and Chaos

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

Ilza · March 2, 2015, 4:04pm

What I was hoping for regarding Valencia when I mentioned Reg Ass was not a direct port from the MaxX deck (since I think MaxX ability needs a very tailor-made list) but more in the line of regular good-stuff cards with a ordinary breaker suite.

I know there are faults with my list, and not running enough economy is likely a problem.
There are also some very good cards that fit with the general deck that’s not included in my list (Imp, David) that likely should be there. If so cutting some viruses are likely correct, although for me it’s a serious mistake not running 3 Parasites in almost all anarch lists.

One of the reasons for including Clone Chip/Self-Modidying over Special Order was they actually have reasonably synergy with Bad Pub but this will likely take a bunch of games to get a good feeling for. Also the amount of carddraw might be over the top.

Tr33beard · March 2, 2015, 4:21pm

This is the build I’ve been tinkering with since O&C dropped. Still not 100% happy with it, but I’ve loved the general play of the deck. Almost every game I’ve lost with it I can point to gameplay mistakes rather than deckbuilding mistakes so I feel like I’m on the right track here.

Valencia goes Monstering!

Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe

Event (14)
2x Blackmail
2x Déjà Vu
1x Frame Job
3x I’ve Had Worse
2x Inject
3x Sure Gamble
1x Wanton Destruction

Hardware (6)
3x Clone Chip ••••• •
1x MemStrips
2x Vigil

Resource (9)
3x Daily Casts
2x Investigative Journalism
2x Kati Jones
2x Liberated Account

Icebreaker (8)
1x Atman •••
2x Corroder
2x Knight
2x Mimic
1x Yog.0

Program (13)
2x D4v1d
3x Datasucker
1x Imp
2x Medium
3x Parasite
2x Self-modifying Code ••••• •

15 influence spent (max 15)
50 cards (min 50)
Cards up to Order and Chaos

Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.

gumOnShoe · March 2, 2015, 4:21pm

Edit: There you go, @Tr33beard with a tested deck

3x Parasite is good; i think its not necessary for Anarch anymore, which I understand is controversial. It’s a ticket into a server a lot of the time so that you don’t need all of your breakers and you don’t need a ton of cash. And maybe there’s a way to do it with Valencia consistently. You could lose the silverware and get your parasites back pretty easily out of that list, and maybe trade a same-old for a deja to be able to recur them easier. TBH, I haven’t done a lot of exploration down that path. Yes, these are known good cards. To me, its honestly a bit boring. I’ve been playing those decks for over a year now. Its cool to have something that’s not only fresh, but also competitive.

Regardless, I do think Legwork is an important part of the MaxX builds and for any just money+breakers build. I fought pretty long and hard against the idea of RegEx (I’m sorry, I’m tired of typing ASS all the time); but the more I did the more looked at it and saw the synergies within the deck. The amount of recursion is right. The economy fits the problem (you’re going to run out of deck, so Kati & Levy). The speed leads to a fast rig, so get your cheap efficient breakers online and then play that good stuff for accessing/blowing up stuff that was working before. Its hard to do better than that in MaxX because you want to be consistent while the deck is fighting you on that front the entire time.

Valencia is different. You have to import the tools to slog through 50 cards yourself (and anarch has those now). Instead of redundancy via retrieval, you need tutors. And you’ve got to find a way to add the aggression in that’s inherent in MaxX. You’re given half the piece to aggression, which is bad-pub. Honestly, blackmail + a few planned assault & inject feels necessary to have that early game advantage. Once you’ve included those cards you’ve got to think about what really works for them. You’re right that there’s stress between a regular old rig & inject. That’s why I’ve come out where I have. To be speedy, you’ve got to embrace what she’s good at and run with the cards that really help your situation. I’d like to hear how your testing goes. Clone Chip + Self Mod is certainly a proven combination, especially with parasite. The deck may perform well. I was pretty resistant to it out of MaxX, but I think in this case there are better builds mostly because Valencia is inherently driving you towards including 3 more good events to begin with and not throwing them away every turn.

Ilza · March 3, 2015, 10:42am

What is the general impression of Dirty Laundry in Valencia?
While a bad pub is not a Desperado, it’s a lot better than nothing.

bayushi_david · March 3, 2015, 11:29am

I think there are three directions you can go with Valenica. The route that runs a lot and uses Desperado and Security Testing. That version definately wants Dirty Laundry. Then there’s the more control focused version that uses SMC/Clone Chip and/or Planned Assault. I think that version wants more sustainable economy options. Finally there are the deep-dig combo decks. They do not want dirty laundry at all.

Ilza · March 3, 2015, 1:52pm

I agree that running Desperado or Security Testing makes Dirty Laundry really great.
What I find more debatable is the value of that bad pub and there we come to the usage of Dirty Laundry. If you are running through ICE or are trashing something, that bad pub is equivalent to a desperado, but if you are just running into undefended archives it’s not worth anything.

Even running Clone Chip/SMC you get a potential use out of that bad pub even if it somewhat limits the usage of your recursion.

gumOnShoe · March 3, 2015, 2:24pm

If you’re doing voicepad its sometimes worth it with eater.

The BP is often conditionally useful

moistloaf · March 5, 2015, 5:47am

only experience so far with Valencia is a Junk list of @edmund_blake_nelson I’ve been running, essentially a Whizzard list of his/mine imported into Valencia. it does not run Blackmail. is this optimal? I don’t think it’s very often where Blackmail is a dead card, worst case scenario it’s an in-faction Inside Job for 1c, right? should I definitely be slotting a few in every Valencia deck? Here is the list:

###[Valencia+smc goodstuff][1] (50 cards)

[Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe][2]

Event (21)

3 [Dirty Laundry][3]
3 [I’ve Had Worse][4]
2 [Knifed][5]
2 [Lucky Find][6] ••••
2 [Queen’s Gambit][7]
3 [Stimhack][8]
3 [Sure Gamble][9]
3 [Wanton Destruction][10]

Hardware (3)

3 [Grimoire][11]

Resource (9)

3 [Daily Casts][12]
3 [John Masanori][13]
3 [Liberated Account][14]

Icebreaker (6)

2 [Corroder][15]
2 [Mimic][16]
1 [Yog.0][17]
1 [ZU.13 Key Master][18] ••

Program (11)

3 [Datasucker][19]
2 [Medium][20]
3 [Parasite][21]
3 [Self-modifying Code][22] ••••• ••••

first change of mine will be adding 2 Kati jones. have yet to draw or use Knifed, it may be replaceable. could easily go to 2 grimoire too although you need the MU with SMC. anyone with more val experience see room for blackmail here? and need for it? so far I definitely think Val is great as a typical aggressive Anarch, although I do typically find myself using her bad pub for trashing cards, which makes me wonder if the list isn’t still better in Whizz.

anyway, Blackmail, always yes for Val?

warpchy · March 5, 2015, 10:43am

Blackmail means you can ignore a scoring remote until something scoring is installed, and that also means resources not spent rezzing Ice that can go into handling just the upgrades.

bayushi_david · March 5, 2015, 10:48am

With a 50 card deck I think you will get rushed really easily without it. Especially since you only have two of each breaker type and three of them are fixed strength and may need support.

Besides, if you aren’t running Blackmail, you aren’t running things to add BP and you aren’t running things to incentivise multiple runs a turn, why are you running Val?

ericbtool · March 5, 2015, 3:16pm

I think the only reason to not run blackmail is that you’re %100 tuned to rush out investigative journalism’s and itinerant protestors.

Metalize · March 5, 2015, 9:26pm

I believe to answer that question we have to contemplate first the reasoning behind playin RegEx Back-to-basics build in Valencia in the first place.

I think B2B shell is valid in any Anarch ID with O&C.

In MaxX you have obvious advantage in free card draw. Whizzard brings asset management. Kim punishes Corp for bleeding accesses. Reina is better at ICE denial. Quetzal is better at getting those accesses. Noise is a special case.

What makes Valencia special so you might want to prefer her over the others? Cheaper runs and Blackmail.

Thus, proper B2B decks with Valencia should play Blackmail and run a lot. If you don’t do both of these, you probably are better off in a different ID.

Keyhole comes natural as infaction “Run-a-lot” powerhouse. Medium and Nerve Agent also encourage this to an extent. Blackmail is as flexible as Inside Job so fortunately you can just throw these in the deck, no tinkering needed. You can also try Quest Complete route. Out-of-faction you look for Desperado, Security Testing, Dirty Laundry, Notoriety etc… cards that reward running.

Personally, I really like rig presented in this deck Meeplemart Store Championship 1st Place Runner Deck · NetrunnerDB

It solves Code Gates by Spooning them with Eater. Eater also does double job in Forking heavy sentries that are beyond Mimic range. I think it’s the most elegant solution available for Anarchs in a current cardpool. Keyhole is also there, but otherwise its standard breakers+money+card draw deck with Corroder, Mimic and events. You can move this list to any Anarch ID with minor adjustments (except for Noise I guess) and it will perform reasonably well. In Valencia you bloat it with Blackmails and whatever economy you fancy.

You suggest eschewing Eater+Keyhole completely. Well… as gumOnShoe suggests, Atman + Yog is probably the next best option, in that case you can forego Code Gate destruction since you break them rather efficiently. Or Medioxhcore’s Zu.13 in conjunction with Spooned/Parasite. But that’s really bloated, since you need gazillion of memory as support. Zu, Datasucker, Parasite, David, Medium, plus aforementioned Corroder and Mimic… And that’s before Imp and Nerve Agent. Yuck.

Corroder/Mimic/Eater with Medium/Parasite/Imp support and Vigil may be a good option.

gumOnShoe · March 5, 2015, 10:00pm

With my list above, if you found room for 1x corroder, the special orders would make it unnecessary to run 2x; And I think 1x Mimic, 1x Corroder, 2x Eater is a valid suite in that case.

But really, if you’re doing blackmail, chances are you never need the breakers because people just don’t respect this deck. Only blue sun ever cares to try to remove BP and not even all builds.

tmoiynmwg · March 5, 2015, 10:17pm

Seems to me that these two things conflict with each other, since running a lot will let the corp rez ice and hence make the Blackmails much less effective. I’m not totally convinced that Blackmail is good in a run-heavy Valencia deck.

Tr33beard · March 5, 2015, 10:30pm

I run a couple copies as it’s brutal on the scoring remote, but I tend to look at it more like Inside Job for Criminal. Nice to have to keep the corp from being too aggressive, but in the long term, the plan is always money and breakers.