Yeah - in a run-heavy deck, just think of Blackmail as an influence-free Inside Job, or maybe a card that says “pay 1 credit to be able to accurately calculate the cost of this run”.
Nah, that deck is too slow to start working - Blackmail is the only card stopping you from losing before you get all set up 
Blackmail and Inside Job are quite different cards, since the fact that Inside Job bypasses rezzed ice is what makes it so great for the criminal playstyle. Blackmail can’t punish the corp after they’ve paid to rez their Tollbooth.
True, but it can go deeper than any inside job making corp resources mostly irrelivent.
Different cards, sometimes similar purposes but drastically different attack angles.
That’s negative 
Treebeard puts it just in the right way:
Remotes you don’t run that often. If you count it, in reality you usually run scoring remotes only a couple times per game. But when you do need to run remote, you usually are under pressure of Corp attacking, and having Blackmail to turn the tables is very powerful.
“Playing around” Blackmail is nightmare for some Corps. If bluffing tools to lure Blackmail remote runs are absent, Corp is very much in a pickle. I.e. majority of Weyland builds who have to advance their agendas on the turn they install them - they have to rely on advanceable ambushes, and how often do they play those?
That leads me to next point. Idk about your meta, but I noticed smart people to counterplay Cutlery/Parasites by not rezzing ICE until it’s absolutely critical to rez it and screw Runner.
Blackmail defeats that strategy.
And if they rez stuff, you have a juicy opportunity to blow it up, n’est-ce pas?
Valencia Estevez (PPVP got cut in favor of Kati, economy events kickstart)
Cards: 50 / 50
Influence: 14 / 15
Event (32)
2x Blackmail
2x Day Job
2x Deja Vu
3x Dirty Laundry
2x Forked
3x Inject
2x Knifed
2x Legwork ●●●●
2x Lucky Find ●●●●
3x Special Order ●●●●●●
3x Spooned
3x Steelskin
3x Sure Gamble
Hardware (2)
2x Vigil
Program (13)
1x Corroder
3x Eater
3x Imp
2x Medium
1x Mimic
3x Parasite
Resource (3)
3x Kati Jones
Spags and I tested a Medium-Mail style Valencia deck and found the returns to be far from ideal. I wasn’t fast enough to beat NEH in any games (0-3), it lost to PE, but on 6 points and losing multi psi games and being 2 credits short on stealing a Fetal AI for the win on the last turn (0-1). It did, however, crush an HB Bioroid Glacier deck (2-0), but that is a dream matchup of high levels.
I believe once Clot is released it could be tweaked up and “possibly” fast enough to be viable. However, I’m far from encouraged. I can’t help but think of this style deck as something a new player could just get lucky with (a la Noise), but a veteran player will be better served playing a deck with more decision points and greater flexibility.
I found “Inject” to be a poor draw card in my build as often times the card I was missing was the program to complete the combo - we switched it back to Duggars and I found that to be better. I actually think Duggars in a combo deck like Valencia is fantastic.
Also, Levy AR Lab is useless in the deck, you will either win or lose well before you need to fire it. At this point I find the Security Testing / Desperado build I tested first (ahead of this and a Eater style build) to be superior and more enjoyable to play for both parties.
I’m not a fan of Inject, either. I’ve definitely had problems landing the Big Medium Dig stuff either here or out of Noise.
I’ll say it again; as much as my deck is unfun to play against its very strong.
Here’s all out medium mail without any back ups:
Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe (Order and Chaos)
15 influence spent (max 15)
50 cards (min 50)
Cards up to Order and Chaos
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
Here’s the more nuanced one I actually settled on. And inject is wonderful here.
Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe (Order and Chaos)
15 influence spent (max 15)
50 cards (min 50)
Cards up to Order and Chaos
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
You may need to use deja to fetch back a component or two, but making sure medium is always on and always digging deep makes it a lot better than the version I’d been playing. Also, making the deck event centric is a huge win since it means you’re largely synergistic. I’m still not sure this is good enough against FA; but it is good enough against many other archetypes and the eatery gives you play if they’ve got bootcamp and whatnot.
I’m gonna be a bit of a downer - Oracle May? Only 64% of your deck are events. While some of the cards you have remove programs from your deck (Special Order), others also remove events (Planned Assault), so… What’s the point?
Also, I’m kinda surprised - nobody tried the old Kate Blackmail deck in Valencia shell? Seems rather obvious. Instead of all this Progenitor/Hivemind/Incubator/Medium/god-forbid-VBG mumbo jumbo which is (in theory) vulnerable to Virus Suite and occupies precious deckspace (not to mention takes 10000 years to setup), play good old hardware solution from shaper (3 cards, 6 inf) and LARLA. As a bonus - Inject does not trash combo pieces. Optionally, play HQI for a new pressure vector too.
This deck will be a real bomb once Clot hits.
Identity
[URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/844/valencia-estevez-the-angel-of-cayambe/]Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe[/URL] [Rez the table if Corp rezzes Lizzy Mills]
Event (25)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/2/dj-vu/]Déjà Vu[/URL] (Core Set)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/725/inject/]Inject[/URL] (Up and Over)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/804/day-job/]Day Job[/URL] (Order and Chaos)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/846/i-ve-had-worse/]I’ve had worse[/URL] (Order and Chaos)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/49/infiltration/]Infiltration[/URL] (Core Set)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/50/sure-gamble/]Sure Gamble[/URL] (Core Set)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/476/blackmail/]Blackmail[/URL] (Fear and Loathing)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/617/lucky-find/]Lucky Find[/URL] (Double Time) •• •• ••
1x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/313/levy-ar-lab-access/]Levy AR Lab Access[/URL] (Creation and Control) •••
Hardware (6)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/270/prepaid-voicepad/]Prepaid VoicePAD[/URL] (Second Thoughts)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/283/rd-interface/]R&D Interface[/URL] (Future Proof) •• •• ••
Program (9)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/10/medium/]Medium[/URL] (Core Set)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/12/parasite/]Parasite[/URL] (Core Set)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/116/imp/]Imp[/URL] (What Lies Ahead)
Resource (10)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/262/same-old-thing/]Same Old Thing[/URL] (Creation and Control)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/323/daily-casts/]Daily Casts[/URL] (Creation and Control)
1x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/338/john-masanori/]John Masanori[/URL] (Opening Moves)
3x [URL=http://www.acoo.net/card-detail/821/earthrise-hotel/]Earthrise Hotel[/URL] (The Source)
Total Cards: 50
Total Influence: 15
Play the deck I posted, then comment. Is perfectly OK to throw non events away. When you don’t you get a card and two creds, which is basically masanori + sec testing. The deck doesn’t need it every turn, but about half the time works out so long as it moves through the deck I’m happy.
I don’t mind r&d or HQ interface. They probably are worth exploring. But you’ve given up on any non blackmail attack vector and in the long run that’s suicide. Lucky find is probably a waste of space without breakers. Infiltration I like. Parasite is likely too slow. Imp I could take or leave in this deck. Lets you control r&d a bit.
The reason for progenitor is that it removes the teeth from virus clears. Rdi helps with that, not sure it’s necessary. I’ll take it for a skin but this deck seriously need planned assault and a backup. Don’t care if that’s activist support and a bike, it needs something.
I like the look of this deck more than most Val decks I’ve seen, but wouldn’t a third Blackmail to go with the two Medium be a priority? I also feel like cutting any one card for a Utopia Shard would be a good investment, or simple changing one of the Special Orders to an SMC to use up that last inf. Day Job and Kati don’t play well together, probably stick to Kati in this deck, and perhaps HQI could be worth a look as opposed to Legwork? I’ve had a few drinks tonight, but try this out (or I will !)
-2 Legwork
-2 Special Order
+1 Sneakdoor Beta
+1 Nerve Agent
+2 Self Modifying Code
Threatening an additional server obviously makes your Parasites and cutlery better, and Val can use BP creds to install via SMC, which is neat, but the memory could be a stumbling block. The 1 SMC over the third Special order is probably better though.
How do you plan on fighting Eli 1.0 without Knifed?
as long as eli is a 3 of in every corp deck I don’t like leaving home without 2x Knifed. Knifed also happens to be great vs Eli since you don’t even need corroder to trash the eli, just click through and boom no eli.
Perhaps that list should play 3x Kati jones (I would go 3 or 0 on Kati personally) but what econ to cut?
While we’re posting medium decks, here’s my updated version. I’m doing the Hivemind-chakana thing and it has definitely been worth it. This deck is built to get set up fast and be resilient to hate cards, as opposed to go for 20 card digs. It probably is a bit dull to play against, but there are actually quite a few things you can do if you know how to interact. I would say it’s among the strongest runner decks I’ve played, certainly my most successful.
The Greater Good
Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe
Event (22)
3x Blackmail
1x Day Job
2x Diesel ••••
3x Déjà Vu
2x Frame Job
3x I’ve Had Worse
1x Infiltration
3x Inject
1x Planned Assault ••
3x Sure Gamble
Hardware (2)
2x Clone Chip ••••
Resource (12)
3x Daily Casts
1x Hades Shard •
2x Investigative Journalism
3x Same Old Thing
3x Virus Breeding Ground
Icebreaker (1)
1x Darwin
Program (13)
2x Chakana ••••
3x Djinn
1x Gravedigger
1x Hivemind
1x Medium
1x Nerve Agent
1x Parasite
3x Progenitor
15 influence spent (max 15)
50 cards (min 50)
Cards up to Order and Chaos
Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.
Your comments and thoughts most welcome!
Hang on, wrong list! -1 DayJob, -2 Investigative Journalism, +3 Kati Jones. All the economy a deck like this needs, and you can draw through your spares.
I have been playing a deck quite similar to the above recently and apart from losing to NEH pretty consistently it does really well against pretty much anything else.
The goal is obviously to set up progenitor/hivemind a chakana or two and two virus breeding grounds asap. The SMC is to increase the chance of getting Progenitor early. Do you have problems getting to it in time with your list? My version is below:
Copy of Shopping Spree (50 cards)
Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe
Event (15)
3 Blackmail
3 Deja Vu
3 Inject
3 I’ve Had Worse
3 Sure Gamble
Hardware (3)
3 Clone Chip [color=#6da045]••••• •[/color]
Resource (12)
3 Daily Casts
3 Earthrise Hotel
3 Kati Jones
3 Virus Breeding Ground
Icebreaker (1)
1 Darwin
Program (19)
3 Chakana [color=#6da045]••••• •[/color]
3 Djinn
1 Hivemind
3 Incubator
2 Medium
3 Parasite
3 Progenitor
1 Self-modifying Code [color=#6da045]•••[/color]
Built with [URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/thm3eeXs4J8P3o23s]http://netrunner.meteor.com/[/URL]
Really surprised you’re having problems against NEH, that’s been about the best matchup for my version of this concept, think I’m something like 6-2 up in tournament games Vs NEH with the deck now. They have absolutely no answer to the Chakanas once they’re up, and it’s very hard for them to score 4 agendas before you get set up as long as you’re aggressive with blackmail runs on facedown remotes behind ice.
My list is pretty similar, actually has a bit less draw power than yours. posted over here: Angel of the Inca Cross
Possibly the biggest thing you’re missing is a Nerve Agent. That card absolutely destroys NEH, even if you can’t get the full combo up a hivemind or incubator powered nerve agent run a few turns into a game will always bag you a few points and sometimes flat out win the game. I would never leave home without one as Valencia - agendas always pool in hand when it’s not safe to put them into remotes because of blackmail. I’m not convinced Earthrise is a great fit either, money is very tight during the set-up phase and you want cards NOW not in a couple of turns time.
How do you handle Blue Sun without D4v1d? It’s been absolutely key to beating them for me, even Darwin + parasite together can’t get round an OAI’d curtain wall for a couple of turns post-purge.
Edit: Wait I only just noticed… No same old things? I just don’t get the thinking behind that. 3 less Blackmails is a BIG deal. No wonder you’re struggling to beat NEH, if you don’t have a blackmail or two to threaten remotes in the first few turns you will definitely suffer big time.
I was wondering if I could fit a nerve agent in somehow. The problem for me against NEH is getting the whole set-up in place before they already won the game. By that I mean two virus breeding grounds and progenitor/hivemind so I can click twice to reset chakanas after a purge. Do you short-cut the set-up process and run more aggressively or what?
With regards to blue sun, I just let them do their thing apart from placing a parasite on curtain walls that get OAId. They then have to keep track of my incubators, my ability to click virus breeding ground and the parasite on the curtain wall and make sure the entire total never reaches 10. It’s actually pretty hard to lock R&D and a scoring remote in this way and not lose the ice to parasite.
In response to your edit I have Deja Vus to recur blackmail and double up as virus/progenitor recursion where needed too. It’s not been a problem as yet of running out of Blackmails, just running out of time before Astros are scored.
Edit: having looked at your list I see you have a planned assault in there. I can see that making a difference in getting a blackmail out. I do like your more toolkit oriented program suite, but don’t you ever get incubator going way too late?
Don’t forget the ghetto version of the combo: you can keep a single Chakana powered up with just one VBG if you find a 2nd Progenitor to host it on - as per the new FAQ you can use VBG to move a counter onto Chakana if you have Hivemind out, and if Hivemind and Chakana are both on Progenitors you only need to add 1 more token to Hive mind following a purge.
I do always try to blackmail the first couple of things that go down in protected remotes against NEH, you’ll often catch them trying to sneak out an agenda and killing a sansan is also worthwhile. The Planned Assault and Same Old Things certainly help there.
I think you’re making the same mistake that a lot of other people have done on seeing my list. It’s not a big dig list. The Incubator isn’t part of the main game plan, just something to get out to force purges, a nice bonus to fetch once you’re fully set up or something to deal with specific problems (eg that Government Takeover deck with Research Stations needs it so you can Nerve Agent their whole hand). It usually wins through Nerve Agent and 4-5 card Medium digs not one big blow out.
Generally speaking the game plan vs NEH is get Chakanas out ASAP stopping for nothing except econ and a couple of remote threats, then fetch Nerve Agent, blackmail HQ, if you haven’t won yet fetch Medium and Blackmail for 4-5 cards on R&D repeatedly. If they do some Jacksoning to break the lock you just switch back to Nerve Agent. Setting up for a proper big dig feels like it could give the corp too much time to amass enough FA tools to break through the Chakanas. I think if you want to big dig R&D you might be better off going for pure speed and skipping the Chakana side of things.
It’s worth pointing out that my deck definitely is a “big dig” deck and is set up for that purpose. I actually put it together to see what could be done with slow decks if Clot manages to slow down corp play significantly. I really like how your take on the concept can get going earlier and run more often too so I’ll certainly give it a go. I am used to running 3-4 times per game for a win, so it’ll probably make my opponents hate me less too. Cheers for the insight!
I’ve been meaning to try some other Valencia builds now that I’m pretty happy with the Chakana build, big dig is certainly something I want to look into more - do you think Clot might be enough of a speedbump to replace Chakana in that sort of build? Freeing up influence potentially for Personal Workshop could be a huge help for that style of play, turn it into something more like the Maxx 28 card dig deck but with Blackmail for early pressure to balance out with being slower to find the pieces. Then there’s also the Desperado/Eater/Keyhole version that took a Spanish SC which looks interesting.
Glad more people are working on Valencia, I was surprised how few I saw at SCs. Let’s get this thread moving like the Ed Kim one has been the last couple of days