Reminder that Weyland actually isn’t having problems right now, that being out of fashion isn’t the same as being bad, etc.
Weyland is out of fashion because they’re having problems. From the two regionals I’ve been to, no weylands in the top 8 and I think there was 1 weyland total in the top half of the swiss (running a non-standard caprice/off the grid deck). They’re significantly weaker than the other corps at the moment, for a faction whose major strength is money, jinteki and hb do money better because they don’t tie it to bad pub/agendas
results don’t lie: http://stimhack.com/tournament-decklists/
HBFA is “out of style”. Weyland has been “bad” long before it went out of style. The only reason it put up Store Champ results is because those tournaments were full of softies who it actually had game against. The fact that it’s flopping at regionals is not an accident.
Results are largely contingent on representation. Very few people are playing Weyland right now, therefore very few people are winning with Weyland right now. Good Weyland players are still racking up the wins.
Slaghund data clearly shows that fewer people are playing Weyland than are playing any other corporation, and this trend has only grown in recent months. At the same time, winrates for the two good Weyland IDs (BABW and GRNDL) are doing quite well.
Weyland’s major strength is not money, but the ability to threaten both agenda wins and flatlines. (Jinteki: PE has not been able to do this until quite recently, and indeed the jury’s still out.) Strong Weyland decks, like Supermodernism and its GRNDL variant, remain viable-- they’re just out of fashion.
Weyland BABW was the third most played corp ID at the san antonio regional, 1 of them managed 12th, and it wasn’t supermodernism.
The Slaghund data shows the two weyland IDs are 9th and 10th as far as corp IDs go. Weyland also historically dips low at high level play, so the 50% winrates aren’t good signs.
They are becoming less popular because they’re a lot weaker
GRNDL made Top 8 in Seattle, I know. Not sure about elsewhere.
I’m not saying it doesn’t want help, but it’s not as much worse off as its results would indicate, either. The recent explosion of Shaper hurts Supermodernism – Taurus might well be a much-needed shot in the arm, and The Root will help other archetypes or lead to a two-server Supermod game.
Honestly, I hope Weyland and Anarch split the next Deluxe Box. For all that I don’t think Weyland’s in the worst position, some added versatility would be nice. Of the two real IDs, one is just a better (for certain things) version of the other.
Let me just say that I’m freakin’ worried about Taurus, man. Worried. :). WEYLAND SMASH RAR!
And yes, Weyland does need help because they do currently struggle against cream-of-the-crop competition. Weyland was only a little under-represented at the two regionals I went to, and only one weyland player made the top-16 cut each time. They need some love in a direction that isn’t just money + meat damage so that there’s more than a couple good lines of play.
They aren’t “dead as a doornail dead” like Jinteki during the early Genesis Cycle, they’re just a little one-dimensional. There’s a good foundation here, with Atlas and SE. Plascrete falling out of favor + Taurus might reinvigorate them a little, too!
Wait why are we talkin’ Weyland’s woes here on the ZOMG LOTUS FIELD WHAT IS ANDY TO DO thread?
Maybe @SneakySly’d be nice enough to more the Weyland talk to a more appropriate thread so we can keep discussing it? It’s true that the Andy vs Lotus Field question is effectively “solved” – grab a different breaker either entirely or in addition to Yog to deal with the Fields, hope if you’re using Knight you don’t lose it early/hit more than one LF – but there’s no need to clutter the one thread with all this tangentially-related stuff.
Honestly, I think Weyland’ll be getting some of what it needs. The spoiled Agenda’s only so-so, but the Ice, oooh boy. Ice that changes type based on advancement seems pretty useful – not enough to make BWBI playable, but certainly enough to be potentially worth inclusion in other decks to mask Lotus Fields/allow more chances to kill programs/end runs. Interested to see what the Code Gate ends up having for a subroutine. Paywall Implementation’s not great, but it isn’t terrible, either. Might take it over Subliminal Messaging.
Buuut Taurus and the Root are still the most exciting additions spoiled aside from Blue Sun, yeah. A uniquely powerful econ/best damn Siphon protection asset and a means to make the ‘obvious’ choice of Plascrete much less effective… and hate on Desperado while we’re at it. More than increasing the likelihood of flatlining, it’s the increased potential to slow the runner down that has me interested, because most decks that don’t care about Plascrete have other hardware they’d rather not lose, making it a pretty effective taxer, given that it doesn’t give BP like Grim does.
For what it’s worth… there were three Supermodernism decks in the 39-player Colorado Regional. One had a family emergency and left early, the other two finished in the top ten.
New thread is better indeed, but the old one was decent as well. I think Lotus Field will be realy good in Weyland. I always wanted a 4+ strength ETR code gate in Weyland, but the only one available was Tollbooth, which was very expensive to rez and didn’t tax the runner because he had bad publicity anyway. Now I have what I need and it costs only half of Tollbooth’s influence.
As far as my own opinions go, I consider Supermodernism to be a decidedly non top tier deck. The gulf between Weyland and Jinteki: RP at the moment is the difference between the runner or the corp being favored to win.
Its been quite a long time since Weyland really gained much of anything from new cards, while in the meantime NBN has become a powerful force, and Jinteki is now a real, tier 1 corporation.
Just having a solid game with good economy and two decent ways to win (Scorch or Agenda Fort), just isnt very interesting anymore when you can make a MUCH stronger agenda fort with Jinteki RP and Ash/Caprice/Nisei Counters, or a MUCH stronger agenda score win condition with NBN.
Weyland’s 53% win rate just isnt exciting anymore when the average corp is 56% and the good corp IDs are even higher.
I’ve been playing around with a Power Shutdown supercombo Weyland Deck lately. With 2x Taurus and 1x Lotus Field support from Upstalks, it becomes much more powerful. Destroy people’s Plascretes, or perhaps kill their Femme Fatale hosted on Dinosaurus (I needed a little help from Corporate Troubleshooter to ensure that he couldn’t break it)
I dunno. I’ve been doing okay with it on OCTGN, but when you’re on OCTGN you have little idea what caliber of player you’re up against. I’ve just started trying out Weyland in order to get ready for the feel of the faction once Blue Sun takes over Netrunner in a few months. A lot of the other major archetypes are doing way better though.
ive found mushin no shin to be an interesting splash in weyland. you can pull of all sorts of weird moves with ghost branch, posted bounty, atlas, vulcan cover up, grndl refinery that really seem to throw people off. the highlight was having my opponent draw a fist full of cards to face check a ghost branch and get scorched out the next turn.
im not saying this makes weyland top tier but if you are looking to throw some curveballs against a meta used to always hitting the fastballs try out mushin no shin.
I’m just going to enjoy not playing against Weyland while I can. Blue Sun decks for days later this cycle.
Well… this can’t be really surprising.
Anarch and Weyland are doing poorly, they are the ones without deluxe boxes.
Let’s leave NBN out of this, we all know Astroscript should never have been printed
Anyway, I am fairly certain once their deluxe boxes (we don’t know how they will split it actually… one with corp/runner and one with corp/neutral seems most likely) come around these woes will stop.
As for weyland’s woe’s… I think part of the problem is that asset econ is a thing now and weyland hasn’t really jumped on that train yet, wich is ironic considering advancing and building stuff should be their thing, instead they basically still do the same thing they did since the core box came out… mostly ops econ, blow up your house, build huge servers. Everyone knows and excepts it and that is imho the real problem. 2+ Plascrete go into most runner decks because of Scorched.
So basically they are in the same boat as anarchs, some of their top cards are too cheap influence wise and therefore work better in other factions
I ended fifth/sixth after the double elim cut in the french national with a GRNDL Supermodernism deck. There were 111 players.
The game who kicked me out from the top was with the Corp deck against a suicidal criminal who ran 6 time (!!) on his last click in my HQ when I holded 1 then 2 snare! and a Scorch.
During the swiss round, I was at the first table for 4 rounds (discounting the first round I didn’t played because I got a bye) and only dropped a game with it at the 5th round on a really unlucky draw (long story short, I only had 2 ICEs in my first 19 cards).
I globally made a good run, mostly win with agendas but still managed to flatline someone in the double-elim round with it.
I’m not gonna say that Weyland is as strong as the other corps atm but I still think Supermodernism is a solid tier 1.5 deck who shouldn’t be ignored. A good player can still do work with it. The style of play of this archetype is just counter-intuitive for a lot of players (a huge remote fort and lightly protected centrals where you rush agenda behind instead of making your centrals secure/taxing enough before making a scoring remote) and it’s in my opinion the main reason why Weyland is shunned atm.
Weyland is doing poorly right now because it has a very weak matchup against Kate, which is presently a popular and strong archetype. The two strongest in faction cards: Power Shutdown and Archer aren’t very good against Kate. Power Shutdown isn’t very damaging when the runner has recursion and cheap hardware that can take the hit. Archer sucks when your opponent can tutor up/recur a Sharpshooter mid-run (using BP no less), making it near impossible to build a remote that your opponent can’t defeat. Coupled with the fact that most Weyland ICE dies very quickly to Parasite and Indexing easily gets around Snare!, you really don’t have many options except hope your opponent blunders into a SEA+Scorch combo.
Indexing doesn’t get around snare in HQ. Weyland wants SEA, Scorch, Scorch, Snare, Snare in HQ.Certainly in the midgame. Maybe that’s not a playable opening hand… I fully agree that Shaper (especially Kate as she’s the most Shaper Shaper) is the worst match for Weyland. I’m intrigued to see the difference between BABW and GRNDL flavours of Big Green. I’ve been running GRNDL recently with moderate success. But I’m not sure I’m truly making the most of the fast start.
While Snares in HQ are still active, there is little imperative for Kate to run there. Since Weyland can only score Hostile Takeovers out of hand, she merely has to wait for the corp to install them. Alternatively, she can always install a Deus X prior to access and not run last click.