What's up with Criminal?

I think the play is something like this, from my FB netrunner chat (not my writing):

Here’s a question: Where do you put your Jackson when you’re trying to build a big Ash server? I got owned by Gang Sign when I had no choice but to keep my Jackson in my scoring server while I tried to mitigate flood against an aggressive runner
So I RFG’d the Jackson on a single agenda the turn I IAA’d an Oaktown, and he went Fisk Investment Seminar, Gang Sign, Gang Sign, HQ Interface
And I lost on the spot. I guess I just shouldn’t have scored it?

@Badeesh, was that you in that game?

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Leela is better at the patient, set up HQI/Gang Sign I guess but where Fisk shines is early aggression that forces agenda’s into HQ without a good plan of scoring them out. It isn’t right to consider Fisk’s ability as part of the mill combo, although in some situations it can contribute there, rather think of him in terms of his ability to destabilise HQ and compress the corp’s ability to do anything with the cards in it. It took me a little while to realise that you must just fire it pretty much every time without fail, unless the corp has been able to manage their HQ early, then you need to be patient and start setting up DLR before you start hammering centrals again. At that point they will build up slow, and try out econ your plan, which will fill up HQ again naturally before you can start hurting it again.

The DLR combo works well here because it forces a response and a rushy play-style which is exactly what you want. Then you can Faust into remotes or just let them score while you FIS and run a central so they have an 8/9 card HQ with an advanced agenda on the table. You’ll have a gang-sign or two out, so the corp is in a pretty horrid position at that point. It also makes the corps want to sit back, build up creds and try trash stuff, which means they aren’t installing and your HQ flood plan works great.

I have tried the Source, Traffic Jam plan but it doesn’t seem to apply the same brain-freeze to the corp DLR does. And it’s cheaper to DLR, so you can manage your income easier with a much better curve. DLR also gives you archives pressure, which is essential when you are trying to hit centrals as often as possible.

Val I guess has blackmail for remote pressure, but HQI/GangSign is just as solid, and makes managing overdrawn hands when you try get an agenda out pretty revolting.

Another thing I’m sure people will say when they see my list is, you can’t beat Turing. Honestly, it doesn’t matter. I’m generally always happy to see people trying to score out agenda’s in a remote. This is why FIS is a priority event, it would be completely broken if I could deja it or same ol it at that point.

@steve_houston yeah I remember that game pretty well! Heh, that’s a classic Fisk maneuver.

Here’s the list I guess cos you asked @Chuftbot :

Likes Cards and Long Walks

Laramy Fisk: Savvy Investor (The Universe of Tomorrow)

Event (16)

Hardware (4)

Resource (24)

Icebreaker (1)

  • 1x Faust (The Underway) ••

15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Universe of Tomorrow

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

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For a hot minute I was playing a dumb breakerless Leela that used Fan Site-Frame Job-Raymond Flint-HQI to get HQ accesses. Part of me wants to go back to that with Batty Fisk and throw in Itinerant Protesters. Jank on Jank sounds like a recipe for disaster though.

I’ve been doing some work on an Iain deck using The Source and Dr Lovegood, along with Fan Site/Data Dealer.

It’s wrecking SYNC like nothing else, and the NEH Fastro game felt close…

I might be having an epiphany; Iain’s ability is a run-less version of Gabe’s, as long as you’re losing. And if you aren’t losing, you probably don’t need the ability…

I sort of want to try an Apocalypse Iain build, because I suspect that’d be one way to convincingly get back into the game. “Huh, I’m losing. … Time to blow up the world, I guess.”

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My Oracle Ken deck has been doing pretty well too. Interesting to see how different our Event spreads are.

SELECT * FROM Agendas a WHERE a.Points >= 7

Ken “Express” Tenma: Disappeared Clone (Honor and Profit)

Event (40)

Resource (2)

Icebreaker (3)

17 influence spent (max 17)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Honor and Profit

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

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I get the joke in the deck name. :slight_smile:

0 rows returned :wink:

(there are no agendas with greater than or equal to 7 agenda points right now)

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I feel like, by and large, the “standard” criminal deck was abandoned by the designers. Look at Dave Hoyland’s world’s deck, by far the best criminal, and look how outdated it is compared to PPK, Whizz and Noise.

It feels like they keep printing either cards for other factions (Cache, Career Fair), bad cards (look at the last two cycles of crim!) and new underwhelming/undersupported archetypes (Geist, Fisk, Connections/Resource Heavy). It results in a match of a runner with half the card pool versus the full thing.

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I think if Criminals could contest remotes a little bit better, Fisk could actually become pretty decent, especially in tandem with FIS. Shapers get remote lock -and- RND lock, but Criminal is still stuck with only HQ pressure. Sure, you’ve got Inside Job for remotes, but that doesn’t really count. I think it’s only fair that Criminals should have some better cards to allow them to snipe remotes. Flooding and/or attacking HQ relentlessly is worthless if the Corp can dump agendas into remotes with relative peace-of-mind.

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They’ve been Weyland’d!

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political operative and councilman should fix a lot of criminal’s woes, but I’d still like a real rig and something with the word R&D on it.

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Proxying political operative in Stealth Andy felt good. Completely wrecks Caprice, without feeling underwhelming like S&W or unreliable like Drive By. You can keep it in hand for tagme, or throw it out for crazy pressure early. Seems archetype independent too.

Only bad thing about the card (mostly good) is that it’s 1 influence. Hardly a reason to play Blue. Way better than Councilman for everything but SanSan.

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Political Operative will help in both glacier match ups to kill upgrades but also other match ups where you want to play economy denial. For example trashing Blue Suns Adonis.

I agree something R&D focused is needed, I’m hoping the turning wheel is going to help but I’m not sure and its a long way away.

As you said a rig is the top thing for me. Dealing with high str code gates is such a pain. If the faction had access to a D4v1d type card they would be top tier again quickly.

I think this is the best I’ve got at the moment, but it depends on what the meta looks like, so may change.

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The Hoyland 46th is Special Order, right?

Drug Dealer is a nice include but without a way to get rid of them I’d worry about the late game econ drain. I love Symmetrical Visage in my own Leela.

When MWL comes in, I don’t know what I’m going to do. Currently rely on Gordian Blade and have a little cry when I find Peacock instead of it.

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Honestly, drug dealer is a large push towards gabe for me, his ability really takes the edge off the constant credit drain. You’d have to make some concessions for the FA matchup, but he doesn’t need the casts money as much. Also, not sure if I like only 2 drug dealer for draw

How’s drug dealer working in Leela?

Early days on drug dealer testing, could well be visage.

I also think you have to suck up no draw in criminal, it basically doesn’t exist.

earthrise and dealer are both good, FIS depends on the type of deck you’re playing, but it’s better than nothing. I feel like you have a few options so long as you have money

Drug dealer would be great,but that small econ drain adds up a lot,I always feel it’s a card for Gabe,maybe I just stick with visage.
I don’t know whether I should slot 1 Atman or just go with 2 Corroder,traditional rig (2 corroder) is still very good,but there are some match up you just wish you have a 4-str Atman.4-str Sentry,namely Ichi and News Hound is crazy,I can’t deal with it very well.
Only 1 legwork,but in current meta I think that’s fine.
Also Stimhack is great,not many opponents would expect Leela stimhack and it’s a decent card give you last shot in Glacier match up.

And yes,no draw in Criminal,basically.Draw 1 card for 1 click is daily life for us.

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