Clot (now 2 inf)

This feels like defending damage on the stack… Here’s this other gross, probably OP line of play that also exists. The first must be ok too.

Guys I’m kinda tired of people quitting netrunner. The things you are describing are totally things you should have been doing if winning was your only objective. But it’s time for a change and it’s OK to admit we’ve been hostages for the last year or so.

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I think you’re right, it is a huge drop in power level. But I think that NBN can probably take it. At the moment I think the only reason everyone who is ‘playing to win’ doesn’t take NBN FA to tournaments is that the runner decks are trying to fit as much NBN FA hate as they can without conceding against slower corps. The stats back me up.

(Personally, I haven’t played NBN competitively, because I like to try to win with something a bit different - I don’t want my lists to have 45/49 cards exactly the same as someone else in the tournament - certainly not with 1/4 of the field). But I haven’t actually won a tournament yet (I typically place in the top 15%), and there might be a good reason for that.)

I also worry a little about collateral damage, but I think FFG are simply saying that you have to have a plan to score in a remote sometimes. NEH FA typically doesn’t have any long game, it will need to find one. If there wasn’t any collateral damage, the card would be too narrow and would be binder fodder (probably see Traffic Jam).

I think Clot is similar to Plascrete Carapace. It severely disrupts one avenue of victory. Building corp decks with no method to playing around clot, when the Valley comes out, is identical to building kill decks with no game if Plascrete hits the table. Pure FA is history, get over it. :stuck_out_tongue:

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You’ve been playing Weyland wrong. Overscoring Atlas is what makes Supermodernism good and/or scary.

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I wonder if NBN’s super fast advance (only NBN could have 3 Effective FA tools working at once) made for a too binary game plan, and if Clot will act as its Plascrete as MasterAir said above. Plascrete can’t be insta tutored, however, so I don’t know if FA decks will see the same resilience that Supermodernism did through Genesis. I think it’s a shame HB fast advance, Tennen decks, and even CI 5-7 point shutdown will probably die.

NBN has so many other tools that have gone by the wayside. Llulien’s “Never Advance” was so clever; it actually relied on Private Security Force to get many of its wins; Edge of World was terrifying in there, and Bernice Mai was such a painful tax. Maybe we’ll see a throwback to that innovation. There’s so many new taggy tools out for NBN, and that’s on top of Midseasons, which is one of the most powerful cards in the game.

It seems the “Nearpad” type builds are what NEH was meant to do. I still hold out that Lunar would have been very different had NEH just not been allowed to include Biotic Labor somehow. No Ice or Operations from Haas would have been an interesting stipulation for NEH. If fastrobiotics was limited to the fragile TWIY builds or the slower Making News builds, we wouldn’t have a need for clot. Traffic Jam maybe, but not Clot.

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Plan B seems to be a sweet answer to Clot.
The problem for NEH is to switch NEH to NA-FA style instead of full FA style. Actually NA-FA could boost NAPD…

Best NA-FA decks would be Jinteki anyway.

It’s a load harder to get rid of a plascrete though. So there’s that.

Has anyone tried ToL builds (maybe with junebug/ghost branch). You have to clot those 1 click earlier and there are extravagant - perhaps not very realistic - install on a sansan -> trick -> score in 2 clicks that mean you can draw the clot with an unadvancable asset/upgrade.

My psychology is weird. I’m much more interested in trying to make NBN work in the presence of clot than in its absence!

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NA isn’t too bad and is a fun way to play. I’ve also been the victim of an MN kill deck that went Midseasons->Invasion of Privacy->Scorched. Not much help to be had from the 2 IHA then.

Shipment from SanSan doesn’t make a dent in Clot? I would have thought that the threat of SfSS->Astrotoken/SanSan CityGrid should be enough to lure out some Clots.

**applause **

You’ve summed it all up, MasterAir. I think every point you have here about NEH and clot and their possible future relationship is completely on-point.

-it is a power drop, and NBN is high enough on the horse to take such a drop.

-collateral damage happens; but without it, clot would be a dead card. Other FA archetypes already have a “Plan B” (not Plan B the card :D) NBN can find one too.

-Plascrete is an apt comparison. Scorch decks were positively toxic pre-carapace. You didn’t need to be able to score out - just draw 2 scorches and wait for them to get tagged one way or another.

Problems are interesting, and a huge attraction of this game is having interesting problems to solve. I think one reason NEH is so despised is it’s just not a very interesting problem to solve - get breakers, access a lot of cards very quickly, or lose. There’s little else to do.

Making NEH work in the face of Clot is far more interesting than trying to beat it in the absence of it.

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There are Tennin and CI builds that will be very sad if Clot is common in the metagame. The early versions of CI (mid spin) (score EC, SfSS other agendas to win) probably isn’t good enough at the moment but is in really big trouble against clot (probably auto-lose). Tennin ToL Fast Advance is probably in a similarly sticky situation.

That said, the only method to winning for corps that doesn’t have a direct counter is scoring the hard way through a remote. You can even play blackmail to turn that off. Runner decks can’t cover everything, but at least there are tools. I’m optimistic that the community will figure it out. I’m pretty confident that we’ll figure it out for NBN too. NBN has a whole lot of good cards not called Astroscript Pilot Program or SanSan City Grid. APP is still a 3/2 that gains you a click and a credit.

My hope is that NBN is worse, but still very playable. If you can’t jam a couple of cards in an existing shell and pretend Clot doesn’t exist, that doesn’t make me even a little bit sad.

Yeah, that’s about right. Hooray for interesting problems.

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CIs “mega-advance” shouldn’t have any problem with clot, just add a step where you play cyberdex trial and/or cyberdex virus suite.

If anything, maybe Tennin and CI will see more play once clot hits the table. At least outside big tourneys.

You should preface this with “in my opinion”. It’s not a fact. I played 2nd in a 25 person SC with Titan FA(sansan and ToL). Sure , it was inconsistent at times and I could pilot it better but just saying it flat out sucks isn’t very constructive.

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Fair enough; it was a hyperbolic statement.

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Horizontal neh still works pretty . Neh still has a powerful draw and extra inf…

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Not quite as hyperbolic as “OMG guys I played Clot a few times the other day and NEH is DOOOOMED!”

Woohooo! I now get a now ID to fix! :wink:

To be fair, the NEH decks, as they currently stand, are completely upside-down fucked against Clot with recursion. A Shaper with Clot somewhere in their deck and an SMC on the table represents an end to fast advancing for the game, and the same with it already in archives with a clone chip. The vast majority of NEH decks aren’t build for remote scoring play, and are going to have to undergo vast changes. So I’m honestly not sure it’s really that hyperbolic to say that the NEH fast advance style is going to be DOOOOMED without major changes.

Biotic in NBN will be unplayable post-clot. The question is whether you can get away with a pure FA build at all, with Tricks of light or something like that (probably not but maybe), or whether NEARPAD can survive (could go either way IMO).

I think the safe NBN is going to go deep on Midseasons.

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Ash / targeted marketing or midseason / targeted marketing is the new deal bro.

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How about Matrix Analyzer —> Plan B :wink: