Crisium Grid Rules Question

[MasterAir]

... seems really good. Anyway a rules query.

What's Crisium Grid's interaction with cards like Keyhole and Sneakdoor or run events like The Maker's Eye with the: 'Make a run on X, if successful...' clause?

My feeling is that it counts as a run (neither successful nor unsuccessful' and therefore cards should be accessed as normal (including accessing Crisium Grid). However, I'm not certain that's the case, the run could just fizzle and no access nor 'instead of access' effect take place.

Which of these interpretations is accurate?

Thanks.

[Dragar]

The run is successful in every way except for card abilities. Since the run is successful, you get to access a card (and any upgrades or assets in the server). But any 'if successful' clause on a card (Sneakdoor, Emergency Shutodwn, Dirty Laundry, Siphon) is not fulfilled.

And yes, it is really good.

[tvaduva]

Yes, you are correct. Here is Lukas' ruling on it (question #2):

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1242585/lucas-crisium-grid

[Iff]

Another thing I was wondering: Is Feint a really good counter to Crisium Grid on HQ? If I understand correctly, the text on Feint is disregarded, meaning I can bypass the first two ICE and get to access (and trash Crisium Grid). Correct?

[Basoon]

Interesting... that needs looking into.

[stoppableforce]

The Feint/Crisium Grid interaction works exactly like you think it does: you bypass two ice, then you ignore everything after "if the run is successful." So it's a super-Inside Job, but only for HQ.

[snake3yes]

I use a Feint in my Gabe deck for that exact scenario.

Best case, it wrecks a Crisium Grid player.
Worst case... it helps me power an Emergency Shutdown.

[Crunchums]

Those rulings make no sense to me.

If I have Security Testing on Archives and I make a Sneakdoor run then I can choose which effect happens because I get to choose the order in which the effects resolve. But he says that if I Sneakdoor with a Crisium Grid on HQ then I can't get Datasucker tokens or Desperado credits? What stops me from choosing to resolve the Datasucker and Desperado effects first and then resolving the Sneakdoor effect?

The FAQ says that Crisium Grid can prevent you from installing DLR. So then how does it make any sense that if I Security Testing a Crisium Grid server, trash the Crisium Grid, and then run the server again then Security Testing won't trigger?
I want to install DLR. Have I made a successful run a central server? Yes, but for the purpose of the card ability, no.
I am running the Security Testing server for the second time. Is this the first time I have made a successful run on this server? No, but for the purpose of the card ability, yes.

[MasterAir]

If I Security Testing a Crisium Grid server, trash the Crisium Grid, and then run the server again then Security Testing won't trigger?

I think its a pretty clunky interaction, however it does make sense to me.
Security testing says 'The first time you make a successful run on that server this turn, instead of accessing cards, gain 2c'.
Crisium Grid says 'Successful runs on this server are not considered successful or unsuccessful for the purposes of card abilities'

Crisium Grid server is nominated for ST. When it's run, it is a successful run, but not for card abilities. So you don't get your ST money, but you do access cards, and you have made a successful run on this server. If you run it again, it is not the first successful run on this server, so ST doesn't trigger. I guess I would have been happy with the alternative ruling too, but this one is fine.

As an aside, I hadn't noticed until this thread that you can't successfully ST the same server more than once. I really should read the cards more carefully! (I don't think I've tried either, but you never know)

[Crunchums]

If you run it again, it is not the first successful run on this server, so ST doesn't trigger.

But it is the first successful run on the server for the purpose of card abilities, so ST should trigger.

[false_idol]

"the first time you make a successful run on that server this turn" is when the card triggers, but it is not a state created by security testing. In other words, the game remembers that this is now the second successful run on that server, which of course is not when security testing triggers, it triggers on the first.

[Crunchums]

That's so seat-of-the-pants, but whatever, Fantasy Flight.

What about the Desperado / Datasucker case?

[Dragar]

They don't trigger (makes sense).

[Crunchums]

I don't think you read what I wrote above.

[Dragar]

Oh, sorry. Yeah, that's weird isn't it?

[gumOnShoe]

If I have Security Testing on Archives and I make a Sneakdoor run then I can choose which effect happens because I get to choose the order in which the effects resolve. But he says that if I Sneakdoor with a Crisium Grid on HQ then I can't get Datasucker tokens or Desperado credits? What stops me from choosing to resolve the Datasucker and Desperado effects first and then resolving the Sneakdoor effect?

It doesn't say "when successful" it says, "if successful". It's a replacement effect, so you never have a successful run on archives. The only succesful run is the successful run you made on HQ, where Crisium grid is, so you don't get tokens or cash for suckers/desperado.

Otherwise everyone would sneakdoor Notoriety.

[Crunchums]

The Sneakdoor effect may be a replacement effect, but it still triggers and the same time as the Desperado effect, so I don't see why I can't choose to resolve the Desperado effect first. It would make sense for you to be forced to resolve replacement effects before other effects, but that isn't in the rules anywhere.

edit: I like your answer; they should add "you must resolve replacement effects before non-replacement effects" to the rules. Would also cover something like "Hardware - Whenever you make a successful run on a remote server, gain credits equal to the number of cards installed in that server" and then you play Singularity.

[gumOnShoe]

I'm pretty sure Sneakdoor is not a "triggered" effect. Or, it is triggered when you initiate it as an action "[click]:" triggers "Make a run on archives.", but the "If successful, instead treat it as a successful run on HQ" is a constant ability on the run. Which is why it's not a simultaneous trigger and supersedes the triggered effects. Yes?

[Crunchums]

Definitely not, since you get to choose between it and Security Testing.

[Dragar]

Do you get to choose between it and Security Testing? I thought if you Sneakdoor on an Archives nominated by Security Testing, you have no choice: the constant effect of Sneakdoor comes into play, and so your successful run was never on Archives.

This is much like the Femme/Inside Job distinction for Nasir.