Exploring a Stalling Metagame: Nasir Meidan StimShop by El-Ad David Amir

Nasir heh, you play him for the fun, not the results. I think he still has a number of weaknesses that are hard to gloss over, and there are so many decision points, it is very hard to find the optimal path.

Having said that though, I’ve never had more fun with a runner (cept Noise, but have been running him since core). I still think he’ll give you a good run in swiss, but come knockouts, against well piloted top tier corps, he just doesn’t seem to have the chutzpa. Maybe one day.

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Well, you say you can’t support clot, but you would have been able to in that first video had you taken money and played SMC. A good NEH will rush against Nasir, and you just need to slow them down and check remotes. Even if you played SMC and sat on cash (and instead installed earthrise the following turn) the corp might’ve just not Biotic’d for fear of clot. I make a point to sit and wait against NEH early and check remotes. Nasir doesn’t need to (and I don’t think he can) outrace NEH. He needs to get NEH to start playing at his pace.

(I’m still watching all the vids, so I can’t comment on any past the first right now.)

Edit after game 2: This game, I was not convinced that you needed Multithreader, or needed it that early. (Are you still playing x2 SMC instead of x3?) Or that Earthrise here would be of higher quality than a Quality Time (though clearly it works better with Peddler). HQI feels too slow. CyberSolutions comes off after 6 points scored by corp: this can’t be the right play, just overdraw and toss them. No Film Critic was sad that game, it would’ve won it for you.

Edit after game 3: You opponent said he forgot he was drawing off the Architect install, but you would have scored that Astro anyway, so that didn’t matter (it would have been card 2 instead of 1, and you had RDI). The peddler play with Armitage Codebusting was cool. Imp was a champ here. Still convinced that HQI is too slow. Astrolabe would have been great to find early. Not playing inti was unfortunate, but you had seen Wraparound on top or RND.

Edit after game 4: R&D was very favorable. The single Multithreader seemed good here. Inti + RDI was enough.

Edit after game 5: misplay with Order at about 1:45 was sad to see. There was a comment by your opponent that Multithreader was doing work here, and it was.

Overall thoughts on the deck, having seen it in action – I will experiment with Multithreader eventually, but Multithreader seems to make Nasir slower, not faster. It helps his late-game, which is already very strong. CyberSolutions is part of the problem: that card is a fat turd and I refuse to play it. Several times it was hosted on PW, but never taken advantage of. This is either 1) a result of the matchup, where you just need the bare bones Mimic, Inti, Multithreader/Imp, CyCy to win or 2) there aren’t enough programs that you can quickly pull off Workshop (or just play) that will speed up Nasir (you used to have Magnum Opus to fill those MU slots).

If I was building around Multithreader, I’d play Astrolabe and just build the rig around Gordian (or CyCy) + Mimic + Lady + Multithreader + a flex slot. Multithreader works well with Gordian. If I was going to include any mem chips, I would only play Akamatsu (2x Astrolabe, 1x Akamatsu, perhaps, and retain the Multithreaders). In no games did you really need more MU than you had initially, due to the transient nature of Imp and Parasite. I am still convinced that playing against NEH gets better if you can threaten Clot and draw more aggressively. Earthrise Hotel, while good in a vacuum, is way too slow for Nasir to outpace NEH. I am of the opinion that while Quality Time is sometimes difficult to play, it is slightly cheaper than Earthrise and helps power through your deck faster, effectively shortening the time it takes you to find Clone Chip targets, SMCs, R&D Interfaces and breakers to put on Workshop, etc. Quality Time also has the benefit of costing 3, so if you’re sitting on an Order credit, it only takes one activation of Codebusting to play it.

I still think you have to #sloththeclot in Nasir. I tend to just slam it on Workshop and keep it at 1 credit while I try to manage the centrals. CVS is annoying for Imp, but I’d still rather play Imp. The games you had it early started to shift back to you. Hope these thoughts were helpful :slight_smile:

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Any chance you’d put out commentated gameplay videos? I enjoyed your HB Hybrid deckbuild breakdown. I think there are probably a lot of us that would gain a lot by hearing how you make your decisions.

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Comments are more than welcome! I’d love to hear more.

@Zeromus convinced me to keep trying … so we’ll see what happens sigh

Sure, I will try to upload one or three later this week. Thanks!

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Does Multithreader also make it easier to support Clot? Have you tried any lists with both in there? I think Clot came out before Multithreader went in…

Also, to clarify, I have no Clot follow-up. Unlike Kate, getting Clot is a painful investment for Nasir. Clot hits, delays them for two turns, but I can’t really do much with these two turns. That’s why I removed Clot in the first place, even when I pulled it it wasn’t effective enough.

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What is the timing interaction between Order of Sol and Drug Dealer triggers? I kinda want the DDs to fire first when I start my turn with zero money, then pop OoS for a credit but I’m not sure if it works like that.

See Official Rules Question Thread - #987 by Crunchums

For the meager chance anyone still cares, I’m sticking to the Nasir plan (insane, I know). Here are notes from the recent testing:

  • Multithreader has been MVP multiple times. Having it on the board opens up a lot of flexibility. Two really help with R&D locking the Corp. I’m moving to three copies.

  • Scrubber does a great job slowing down NEH. Being able to run unrezzed remotes and actually do something about them is great, as it controlling their economy and trashing DBS. This replaced my Armitage Codebusting.

  • I did some testing with Nerve Agent – it leads to great mid-game situations, since the Corp rarely ices up HQ. Building it up to two or three counters is enough to pressure HQ well, and you can tutor for it.

  • Femme. Undecided on Femme. Without Test Run it’s far from amazing, you have to draw it and put it on Workshop. I’m keeping it for Tollbooth for now but it might go.

  • Symmetrical Visage. Baby served me well in a few games, taking some of the bite out of clicking for a card.

  • Street Peddler. I had several situations where I quasi-whiffed a Street Peddler, so I decided to remove them. Hopefully SV will help with digging.

  • Imp. Imp was great … except that the Corp is completely fine with wasting three clicks to purge since I’m so slow. And Cyberdex exists, having it wipe my counters sucked.

Plus I’m going to test Clot now.

Here is a series of games where I tested versus NEH:

And the latest list, to be tested tonight:

Solidarity v1.7

Nasir Meidan: Cyber Explorer (Upstalk)

Event (4)

Hardware (10)

Resource (14)

Icebreaker (7)

Program (11)

15 influence spent (max 15)
46 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Data and Destiny

Decklist published on NetrunnerDB.

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It’s not insane. His ability has a profound effect on the shape of the game (the decision points as well as the economy, he regularly makes cash bursts significantly higher than Kate) and although hard to crack, and with maybe a few key bits missing, I still think he is around 1.5 currently when played by an experienced Nasir runner.

It literally took years to get Noise to where he is now. I remember a brief post Jackson release phase where people would pretty much laugh at me for playing him at tournaments.

My gut feel is that all Nasir’s builds are too PW reliant. If we can solve that effectively I think he’ll be in great shape.

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That list looks really, really good, I can tell it has a lot of work put into it. Thanks for working so hard on it, I appreciate it! :smiley:

Agreed that that is the biggest flaw in the deck. Hopefully playstyle can cover it until PW is installed.

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Totally! Not to mention it’ll cycle out way before Nasir does, and at that point is he just going to die completely?

I’m trying to brainstorm ideas now that just cut PW from the deck entirely. I’m nowhere with it just now (I don’t think it’s even a workable idea), but hopefully, if anything, I can teach myself to rely much less on it.

My universe begins and ends at November 2015. Beyond that … I don’t care right now :wink:

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I believe it’s Spring 2017 (earliest date for rotation) so still a few more years to bang our heads against him heh.

You are for real my hero! Kinda wish I was going to worlds now, if only to see it in action! (I don’t think it’s insane at all; Well played Nasir can be very strong and I have a feeling a weird, hard-to-answer deck might be strong in a weird, hard-to-answer meta…)

[quote=“IirionClaus, post:389, topic:2609”]
Multithreader has been MVP multiple times
[/quote]Agreed. the more I play with it the more I feel like it’s a missing puzzle piece to Nasir. very slot efficient, and late game it can practically be stand-alone econ.

Interested to hear how the rest of your changes shake out. Nerve agent in particular is interesting - always felt like it’s an underplayed card but it’s definitely also very clunky to play. Scrubber and Baby seem like solid choices, though going completely without any click-for-credits definitely seems like a gamble (albeit one that only Nasir would dare to make :smiley: )

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Watch my hopes and dreams go up in smoke? :wink:

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I have never seen a grown man cry, so I would love to see it. Maybe we can see you on the stream and youtube it?

/hug

For what it’s worth El Ad, I think you’re doing anyone interested in Nasir an enormous service. I sleeved up one of your earlier versions of Solidarity and it played like an absolute dream. Once in a while I would get screwed on a late Personal Workshop, but when I got the pieces out it was as smooth as butter. The way that he pressures R&D is very similar to Kit, except your rig just keeps getting bigger and bigger until they can’t do a goddamn thing about it.

Best of luck at worlds, I’m rooting for you!

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My sentiment exactly. It’s easy to dismiss this deck at the very top levels of play, where excellent players are likely to be able to leverage their “all the best cards” decks well against his weirdness. But down here amongst the mortals,Solidarity is a juggernaut; I don’t even bring it to GNKs anymore because it was warping the meta to the point where the locals at my store were teching against it.

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