This.
Search the forum for bad card, youāll find your contest
3 Likes
I think youāre melting two different thing:
- whether an ID is good or bad
- whether an ID is a standalone or not.
Ex: Andy is standalone, Leela is not, both are good.
Whizzard is standalone, Noise is not, both are good.
Jesminder is standalone, Nasir is not, both are somehow bad.
Harmony medtech is standalone, Chronos Protocol is not, both are bad.
This is not related.
Whether ID and archetype they give birth to are good or bad is because they have the support or not. The cards to play with.
You could have NEH in a 0 NBN asset world, that would a little less good ID than today.
Some of you are saying āitās meh, it needs supportā, support it needs is 2 clicks and 3cr with a basic everytime available action.
I still think itās green RP. Not sure you want to run each turn when most runs (plascretes) cost you a card.
Youād better forget the spam use of strong cards vs this id, like Sec test, Patron, Masamori, Keyhole, R&DI, HQI, Whizzard, this is, to me, a strong ID because of this aloneā¦
Having to put space ice, which is not that costy āsupportā btw, or Ice walls, which is one of the best barriers or things like that is not a problem ?
I need 9 inf to run this ID.
Jacksons, Hokusai Grids and this is it. Each (first) run will have a consequence.
No fancy stuff. Advanced stay the whole game, will give me 2c / clic on space ice or big Ice walls that gives a meat dmg. Which is an amazing card.
3 Likes
Iām confused as to how Leela is not standaloneā¦ one of the reasons she works so well as a Rebirth target is that her good cards are the same as Andy and Gabeās.
@anon34370798 mind your language. Iāve edited you post.
2 Likes
That is actually a verb that journalists can write, I donāt really see the problem. Itās my fault, I always forgot this when talking with US guys.
I was saying mid / late game abusing weyland servers days were over, if you prefer this.
1 Like
She shouldnāt, to me, because in my mind sheās a remote locker.
Sheās a runner that does not play desperado, can play gang sign, and need non-central breakers as much as remote. She do not play legwork. She have strictly different aggro and tempo than Andy & Gabe, who should want you to rez stuff.
Sheās not compatible, to me. Coming to Leela with a rezzed corp is a terribad move. Coming to Andy is even more terribad, and coming to Gabriel is, to me, a lack of confidence in Leela and canāt be done when syphons came.
Now, I can totally be wrong about that, this is just what I think.
Except the vast majority of successful Leela decklists have featured Desperado, Legwork, and do not include Gang Sign. Itās fine to speculate, but reality says exactly the opposite.
3 Likes
My experience (limited so far) with Andromeda Rebirth is that except rare cases Leela is almost always the better choice. Truth be told I run a deck similar to Endless Waltz and just changed an RDI for Rebirth and The Turning Wheel. So it really is a Leela deck with Andromeda starting hand.
But playing Leela competitively for the better part of the last year I would say that she mostly wins from RD lock and central accesses. And although remote snipes are important I would never go as far as to say that she is a remote locker.
As to how to use Rebirth I occasionaly āmorphedā to Gabe if HQ is a piece of cake, rarely to Shilouete (generally IG and PE matches) and if I am too far behind in points Sterling in hope to gain another advantage.
4 Likes
@Dragar To me, Legwork is terribad for Rebirth synergies. And Leela decks are very very formalized, so sheās full of support.
If you play say, 2x Legwork / 3x Syphon aka 5 HQ running cards vs 1 Rebirth.
Now youāre in midgame, found your 1x Rebirth (Midgame or lategame : 48.88% to draw before card#23, 48.88% to draw after, 2.22% to draw it #23). So with your 5 HQ running events, would you prefer to give Gabe a rezed HQ, or Leela a rezed HQ ? Or would you have your 2.5 HQ runs in grip waiting for Da Rebirth trigger ?
āWould I prefer a late Gabe or a late Leelaā is the question when you want Rebirth.
To me, the answer is āfrom Gabe, giving Leela a lategame HQā, but late Leela is still meh.
So itās a Gabe deck, not a Leela deck.
And weāre not judging Leela as a start ID anymore. Weāre not judging Leela on her strategical merits, but on her tactical merits. So sure, no support, yeah, whatever support anyway, weāre on a tactical judgement.
Everybody knows non-Leela Rebirth are decks where you have a Leela tactical option among others. Leela option represent the same tactical option you have with Gabe / Ken / Iain / Nero or any idea you have to solve the current boardstate. If Rebirthing into Leela is terribad, then youāre better try something else.
Iām not even talking about midgame Andy since Andromeda playing Rebirth is strictly better for any target ID but for that 1 link.
If I play Leela with a Rebirth, Legworks, Syphon & stuff, I canāt give it with confidence to Gabe because of sloting those 5 vs 1, and even I is not stupid enough to pass the hand to Andy.
To me, Leela Rebirth shouldnāt play Legworks, she should plays HQIs so she would control HQ better than lock it. Then she would be locking R&D with a lot more cards than Gabe. And then give an unrezed / small HQ to Gabe.
If she plays HQI, then she would have a benefit with Gangsign. Etc.
Telling āshe doesnāt need support because I can Rebirthā, Iād say yeah sure, any runner ID, actually, can rebirth in non-deckbuilding ID with partial / total success, providing the target ID can break things and make money.
Does that mean all non-deckbuilding IDs doesnāt need support ? Nope. This is just blanking the text. You ācouldā be playing terrible cards for Leela, like Masamori etc that would be just fine with Gabe.
So if you donāt mind about synergies, you would have trouble when looking at cards to judge them supports cards or not : actually Rebirth decks are 100% supports decks in the way of āthose cards should work very well with my 5 target IDā. In a way, their no-support play status makes them deckbuilt support, since you canāt be playing whatever cards are good for a specific ID.
Since Rebirthing in a less competitive ID with the current boardstate is a terrible move, I still think this is melting a āgood IDā strong point with a ānaked-supportā strong point.
1 Like
All this is fine, but Andy is competitive with her ID ability saying +4 cards at the start of the game. Youāre playing an Andy deck with a super powerful 0 cost untrashable resource (that is non-tutorable, but you canāt have everything). Itās either more money with Iain or Gabe, or more often Leela.
Andy is not a bad ID!
5 Likes
Iām Dutch. And I donāt care about journalism. Weāve got standards 
5 Likes
If sheās aiming for Rebirth, she finds it in 35% of her games after an optional muligan, after 1st draw.
(flat chances are 33.4% without the draw : 33.4% for 1-ofs, 56.4% for 2-ofs, 72.1% for 3-ofs).
But after those first 35%, if itās a no, sheās at card#10, she have to clic 13 times to find Rebirth a little more than 50% of the time.
She would be one of the earliest Rebirthing runner of all, since she could be Rebirth T5 if this is totally a must do (T5 MaxX could compete though, I donāt really know which one is the best).
I think you could make a spectrum of ācontrol Criminalā builds with Stirling on one side and Leela on the other. They play the same or very similar cards, with tweaks depending on how much you lean on board presence and how much you lean on timing.
Youāre right. If you are building a deck expecting to rebirth every game you will be disappointed. Donāt play rebirth like that. I donāt think itās even very high priority to mulligan for.
2 Likes
Illuminati confirmed.
4 Likes
You can tutor it with Logos, which is in faction and really not a bad card in its own right. My Palana deckās only losses have come from Leelas playing Logos (but no rebirth so far).
How does Palana lose to Crim here? Why not just double advance in the remote and reinstall bounced cards? Install Batty behind a destroyer and psi-game for (what often amounts to) the whole game?
One loss was mostly out of centrals (agendas --> Siphon), ending on a 2-card access for the last agenda in a 21 card R&D.
The other loss was a timed loss to a Keyhole deck that I am 99% confident I could have won had it not gone to time (I had the game-winning agenda installed, but it got bounced on the last turn).
2 Likes
Those sound like pretty bad luck!