It’s netrunner, it happens.
I ran against a Government Takeover deck with 0 points. He was holding 2x Punitive in hand and had plenty of money. I hit the takeover and a hostile on a Medium dig.
The timed loss came after I beat my opponent’s Jeeves FA deck in a 40-minute grind where I fed my Levy to Faust because he scored up to 6 so quickly. I only won because h stranded his GFI in a remote and I forced him to rez all of his ICE.
You keep talking about BoN damage being damage that the runner can choose not to suffer, but choosing to avoid that single damage is the same as choosing not to run and running is how you win, so barring some solitaire Noise or DLR deck, isn’t that kind of the best case scenario for the Corp anyway? And we are talking about the quintessential Rush faction here. If you durdle too long against Weyland, they just start scoring out.
Another thing that is interesting about BoN is that because Weylands ICE is generally toothless, most runners have never had a reason not to facecheck ICE against W. But now you have to worry about losing a breaker or key economy piece just for poking in RnD, which is something that Weyland hasn’t really had before. Plus, if it’s something like a Shadow, and you decide to walk through it taking a damage and a tag, what if you hit a Snare? 3 net and a tag is a lot easier to shake off than 4 damage and 2 tags.
Even just throwing down a Housekeeping out of this ID sounds really oppressive. Damage if you run, damage if you set up. Either way you are losing cards.
Maybe I am being overly optimistic but I don’t want to dismiss this thing outright just yet.
Diesel’s probably the best in-faction, and Maker’s Eye the best in general.
Hayley’s the only Shaper that doesn’t have to give a really good reason for why they aren’t running Diesel, and even then you still sometimes see Diesel in Hayley.
The rush decks that have seen success recently do not have the time to advance cards though - in fact they’re often leaving centrals un-iced altogether.
The runner having to be Boned means you’ve iced and advanced three servers. Which means you’ve giving the runner two turns worth of your clicks and most runners can set up in two turns.
Not to say BoN won’t be good, but it will be a different deck to how supermodernism works and inferring the Bon deck from other Weylands seems wrong to me (much in the same way Blue Sun and Gagarin are their own things separate from Argus/Titan/GRNDL rushing decks).
i agree with you that it’ll be a different deck, but i really don’t think we can consider 3 clicks of icing up servers as a mark against a corp deck, even rush
not to mention that… well, why does it have to be 3 servers? i know that you mean R&D, HQ, and the remote, but why? wouldn’t the corp rather just ice up and advance the servers they want to keep protected and leave the others less defended to encourage more runs on those servers instead? once everything is iced up and advanced, they all look the same to the runner
I never said the runner can choose to not suffer the damage. You’re right, that’s a game-losing proposition, since they’re not running. I’m saying that the runner chooses when to take the damage. They’re in full control of when they run.
I think at this point, you just treat running on advanced ICE similarly to running vs Jinteki or people you suspect are running Snare!s; simply install what you wish to keep. I do appreciate that this also slows the runner down if they draw a card that they then realize they need to install instead of making a run on that click, and this does have value.
I’m honestly not trying to dismiss it. I hope to hell I’m wrong; Weyland is my favorite faction. I’m just sad that every time I think “You know, this ability isn’t as bad as I thought when I saw it,” I remember that it only has 12 influence to work with. It just seems needlessly limiting on an ID that seems merely okay.
I do agree that BoN looks like it’ll be a Cleaners/Punitive deck. I disagree that Snare! belongs in it.
I think you’re better off with Junebug or Cerebral Overwriter. (I lean towards Junebug because the IAA Junebug can kill a runner that runs with less than max handsize.)
I’d expect the deck to look like:
Agendas: 3x Cleaners, 3x Hostile Takeover, 2x Government Contracts
Operations: 3x Beanstalk, Hedge Fund, 2x Punitive, Shipment from Kaguya, Enhanced Login Protocol, 1x Consulting Visit.
Assets: 3x Public Support, Jackson, Project Junebug
ICE: 3x Ice Wall, Mausolus, 2x Archer, Shadow, 1x Changeling
Upgrades: 2x Crisium Grid, 1x CVS (Medium digs hurt a lot.)
This is 44 cards and 10 influence… You can possibly drop Public Support entirely… I suspect Trick of Light won’t actually help a whole lot in this deck. I’m also concerned with: Lack of Tag Punishment for Shadow, and only 11 ICE. It’s still a quarter of the deck so it should be ok, but it does concern me. Cobra, Enigma, Excalibur, Wormhole, and Spiderweb are all valid ICE to add in. Komainu isn’t bad since it forces a jack out if in front of an advanced ICE, but in this deck won’t singlehandedly kill a Runner.
I dunno, looks Fun at least.
Set up what, exactly? Certainly not a full rig. Maybe a breaker and enough credits to run. You can perhaps point to rigs capable of setting up in two turns from 5 starting credits, but that’s nowhere near “most” runners.
it’s also the first 40-card Weyland ID
These new Flashpoint Corp IDs are surely preparing for rotation on the Genesis ones.
This. I really feel like the 12 influence thing isn’t nearly as much as a problem in a 40 card deck where you will see stuff a lot faster. Maybe just run 1-2 less copies of your out of faction cards.
To me the benefit of being able to run a leaner, less agenda dense Corp deck is more impactful than losing 3 influence.
Also, I really think the set up time for this ID to be turned on is being exaggerated. 2-3 clicks and credits over the course of the game is not egregious. Especially with Kaguya. I think the only caveat is against Anarch via ICE destruction.
True! I do like that.
If nothing else BoN is probably better than BWBI. The crim one definitely pales in comparison to Andy though.
Huh, now you can play a deck with four agendas
I’m trying my damnedest to think of a way that’s a good thing. I would absolutely love to be able to play a game with GT and 3x Vanity Fair. Oh, and have a chance. I’m just not quite sure how, and more to the point, I’m not sure that ability helps you get there. I suppose you could try to make a heinous fotress of advance able ICE to score out of, but that’s pretty slow to do, even with all the support you could cram in, only running four agendas. I will give it a stab though.
Punitive Counterstrike, presumably. And possibly some kind of Public Support/Exchange of Information combo?
Heh already have most of those cards in the build. Seems smart. Dedication Ceremony/Casting Call combo seems reasonable, since your scoring opportunities are 6 advance and 9 advance…
Punitive decks are fine in theory.
Then your opponent casually installs Film Critic turn 1 and you get to play the entire game pretending your deck isn’t terrible. Punitive Decks are for masochists who enjoy fighting tilt every turn.
Film Critic dies to in-faction Contract Killer. Or you put in a tagging card to deal with resources.
I think if you’re going all-in on Punitive, you need an answer for the Critic. Probably the most consistent is to use Snatch with Consulting or something, but at that point it feels like you concede ever tracing them again, also turning off Punitive. I guess Contract Killer is a possible answer, if you can get it to stick for a turn, but it’s not like decks want to run a ton of 'Killers, so you’re probably hoping you draw your 1 Killer if they draw their 1 Critic? Still doesn’t feel good.