Grip, not Hand: Yes We Khan!

I think Replicator and Spy Cam were pretty clearly designed with both in mind. Its the reason Shaper’s consumer grade is so ho-hum!

The deck has hate cards available to it and will likely have more coming.

Like… say a current that prevents the runner from searching their stack.

1 Like

hope :slight_smile:

Back to the deck, Pheromone & … Golden / Ankusa ? Say Gordian Blade for the last one ?
3 temujin + syphon, here we go :slight_smile:

-edit-
Not sure if this is a monster, or just a paper tiger. Who said Ghengis when you could have an Attila grass cutting machine, with a spear, a sword and a falcon.

This should say “cheese!” to any horizontal deck ?

Attila Khan: Grass will never grow again

Khan: Savvy Skiptracer (Blood Money)

Event (20)
3x Account Siphon (Core Set)
3x Deuces Wild (23 Seconds) ●●●
3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
2x Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus)
3x Fisk Investment Seminar (The Universe of Tomorrow)
3x Special Order (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (6)
2x Autoscripter (Up and Over)
2x Doppelgänger (A Study in Static)
2x Sports Hopper (Salsette Island)

Resource (8)
2x Security Testing (Honor and Profit)
3x Temüjin Contract (Blood Money)
3x The Turning Wheel (The Liberated Mind) ●●●

Icebreaker (3)
1x Ankusa (Fear the Masses) ●●●
1x Golden (Blood Money)
1x Gordian Blade (Core Set) ●●●

Program (3)
3x Pheromones (Humanity’s Shadow)
12 influence spent (max 12, available 0)
40 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Blood Money

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

2 Likes

I think now the console was allready there, just in front of our eyes :slight_smile:

1 Like

I’ve been playing around with Khan all day today. She is a little better than I thought, but I still find her ability cumbersome.

Here’s my Brahmin-Autoscripter Khan list. My win rate with this deck is around 50% in Jinteki.net casual, so it’s not competitive yet. Still, click compression is in full force here:

Click 1, Deuces Wild draw 2, expose ice, run Sec Test server for 3$;

Click 2, Inside Job 2-deep server, install a Spike with Khan on a Scher for net 1$, gain a click, break inner ice with Brahman, bounce the Spike, draw the Spike with Masanori, access. 3 clicks remain.

I could conceivably move to Andy rebirth, spending extra influence on tech cards like Employee Strike or Film Critic. Extras of the resources would be nice.

I’m also not convinced that a Chameleon deck in Khan wouldn’t be better outright. That’s the next experiment. :slight_smile:

AutoBrahmaKhan

Khan: Savvy Skiptracer (Blood Money)

Event (19)

Hardware (5)

Resource (9)

Icebreaker (5)

Program (2)

10 influence spent (max 12-2☆=10, available 0)
40 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Blood Money

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

3 Likes

wouldn’t you have drawn on the sec testing run?

still though, i’m liking how things seem to work her focusing a lot on good stuff criminal: Inside Job is a huge staple, and that card works really well with good expose effects, and why i really love the inclusion of Deuces Wild

i think the main thing for her is getting the rest of her breakers. i have to believe that Golden isn’t the only one.

also, not sure about your breaker suite tbh. are the Spikes just installing for Brahman? are they Spikes and not Shivs because of Wraparound?
i do like Autoscripter + Masanori though because i feel like, of the criminal runners, she’s one of the most likely to never make unsuccessful runs, with Silhouette probably the only one higher

My immediate idea was to include autoscripter to essentially get a 5 click turn, on turns you’re running. This works well with B&E breakers supporting normal breakers (MU is the issue), getting you a click, triggering tech writer, and reducing breaker costs on later runs. Also the slight discount is partially Kate, which is nice when you drop Gordian, mongoose, or paperclip/corroder as your permanent solution.

I decided the smaller decksize encourages “Money + breakers: GO” style. To me this means 1-2 copies of permanent breakers, a few disposables to get pressure going early, and temujin to pay you to run with disposables (while getting access).

Ultimately you’re left with “I’d rather be Andy, get the 2 extra inf and just rebirth into Khan as needed”

Nice to have the choice though.

Heres my list after a short building session and 1 game (win) of testing Deckbuilder · NetrunnerDB.

Seems not great.

Ahh, you’re exactly right, I would have drawn with John on the sec test run in that example. But yes, Masanori is a great include here as the clickless draw is pretty important for Brahman.

Spike is solely there as Brahman food, so it might not be the best choice. And it’s spike to lower wraparound. An Andy version of this deck had shiv instead for Swordsman, but I wanted to give Golden a try.

This deck works okay, but not great. :slight_smile:

[quote=“x3r0h0ur, post:67, topic:7504”]My immediate idea was to include autoscripter to essentially get a 5 click turn, on turns you’re running. This works well with B&E breakers supporting normal breakers (MU is the issue), getting you a click, triggering tech writer, and reducing breaker costs on later runs. Also the slight discount is partially Kate, which is nice when you drop Gordian, mongoose, or paperclip/corroder as your permanent solution.
[/quote]

another thing i think is often overlooked is the fact that it’s not just a credit discount but a click discount as well by not having to spend a click to install, so with Autoscripter, it’s effectively a 6-click turn plus the credit discount

i think Khan really needs other breakers though, that derez barriers and code gates, (or maybe just use Crescentus to help with the derez effects? or in additon to… if we see how much it costs the other breakers to derez). but idk, i feel like her main goal is derezzing ICE and then hitting the same servers again to force rezzes and keep the corp broke or just allow accesses. i think adding stuff like ICE Analyzer or Compromise Employee, Forged Activation Orders, and/or High Stakes Job could be good too

Desperado + Temujin seems really strong and likely what i’d run (unless she gets an insanely synergistically-powerful console)
Doppelganger seems ok if influence is tight, but i think i’d prefer Desperado

i also like Scheherazade + Autoscripter + John Masanori, and even though it’s pretty fragile to unsuccessful runs, once she gets up and running, i don’t the corp can do much to stop her

i also think that in terms of R&D multi-access, Medium might do a bit more work, since you’ll be aggressively running the same server over and over again with Temujin

I’m not so sure she has to have de-rez and shutdown effects, denial is nice, but its also a game plan. I like the plan of get online, get money, and get the necessary numbers of accesses to win. No frills.

After a few games toying with Golden, I couldn’t imagine those cards to be so antisynergic, in fact.

That makes golden only work on first outermost ice you meet this turn AND only if it’s a sentry, this is so crappy for that cost !

Or, if you use golden’s derez innermost, then take the risk of corp turn damage (Criminal Problems), or having your target server recovered by a dangerous sentry…

2 Likes

i meant her breakers.

and getting online, getting money, necessary numbers of accesses and no frills, i think Andy does that a lot better. hell, Gabe and Leela do this better.

Khan’s ability in a vacuum is just not very useful, but combined with that fact that she can reinstall a program that has bounced to your hand mid-run is pretty cool. gaining credits on ICE rezzes, credits and clicks on those reinstalls, etc., i think that’s the sweet spot for finding the right math on getting her to work correctly. i think you need to reach a certain board state, with an appropriate number of credits, money-making resources/hardware, and programs installed, and then just snowball out of control as you continue to make lots of runs wherever you damn well please. you obviously don’t want to derez everything, since you can only reinstall one breaker per turn with her ability, but

this is why i’m convinced we’ll see more breakers. basically you get to the point where you derez something really nasty, then next turn reinstall the thing unless it’s the othermost piece of ICE
if only Escher wasn’t so expensive influence-wise

but anyway, having a suite of breakers like Golden opens up a turn of run x server, derez outermost ICE no matter what it is, reinstall program, jack out OR continue & gain money with Temujin, then High Stakes Job x server

sure, the corp can play around your ability by installing crappy outermost ICE, but they’ll have a problem of need to keep reinstalling ICE or not putting anything else in the server (making the math really easy for you on what you should keep derezzing). it’s also a prime target for Inside Job

I believe this is 100% required for Khan to be competitively viable. Golden alone is not enough.

This is where she currently sits, which is not a good place to be. The question we all have to ask ourselves in an Andy Rebirth deck is: When would we rather be Khan instead of Gabe/Leela? Answer: When we’re installing breakers mid-run routinely.


One thing I do want to note is that Khan might be a good place for a Stealth crim build, because her ability is such that she probably only wants to run once a turn. I also believe that a strong de-rez plan is where the first strong Khan deck will appear from, unless her other mid-run bouncing breakers do something besides de-rezzing. (Which I doubt, because that looks like the perfect Crim ability on a breaker, in retrospect now that we see Golden. That is, I can imagine Golden in a world without Khan, because its abilities are so blatantly Criminal.)

1 Like

Have we gotten any indication, or confirmation of that?

While it does certainly appear that every runner faction is getting a new set of breakers, nfr/paperclip has proven that they are not beyond also including runner specific breakers. As Golden is the only criminal program that we have currently spoiled there is the possibility that it does not share the same mechanics as the ‘main’ breaker suite in the cycle.

I will point out that each of the cycle of breakers has been for an ID in the cycle (Stealth for Smoke, Omar’s breakers…) It’s doubtful we’ll get a second Crim ID, right…?

That said, basically we have All Conjecture to go on right now. The indicators are strong: For Khan to be good, she has to install breakers multiple times, and currently only Golden does that by itself. (Brahman is next, and you can argue the B&E suite fulfills the criteria…) We haven’t seen a Crim cycle of breakers yet, so Golden’s Cycle is as good a guess as any. The derez/bounce ability is too awesome to just use once…

And we’d really really like it? :slight_smile:

2 Likes

i think it’s a bit more than that as well.

Golden is essentially 6c to derez a sentry (all other costs are for the initial install and break), and due to the Khan’s wording of only being usable after the first piece of ICE passed each turn, it’s a little unwiedly in that you have to either derez the innermost sentry on a server and then run again next turn, hoping there’s not a sentry placed in the outermost position, or use Golden on the outermost ICE, if it’s a sentry, and reinstall immediately, but even then, you also have to decide that 6c is a justifiable cost to derez it. otherwise, you might as well be just any other criminal using Golden to break sentries

you could also install multiple copies of Golden, or have supplemental breakers like Faerie, Shrike, Femme Fatale, etc., but at that point, Golden becomes so situationally useful that you might reconsider why you have it at all

it’s all speculation of course whether or not she’ll get more breakers, but i’m calling it now that she cannot ever be considered anywhere close to competitive, viable, whatever, if she doesn’t get more breakers that work like Golden. she’s already limited enough by her ability, but being limited to only dealing with sentries (and at such a high cost) is way too much imo.

Mongoose & Golden would save the recovering, when Golden is sitting in hand.

But still, one unlucky Scorched, Neural, or a Hokusai grid / PreSec later iin the run and it’s game over without Criminal recursion.

So. What he wants is Paintbrush maybe ?

Golden is easily best in shaper where it can drip off a workshop, or be cheaply reinstalled with sahasrara. I can’t say its good in crim in any ID. Splashing rara is out of the question too lol.

1 Like

I haven’t fussed with this ID much, because outside of the interaction with bypass effects (Inside Job, Feint, Femme) it seems pretty terrible. That said, if her code-gate breaker is decent (you know, supposing she gets one…) and costs less than 5 (c’mon FFG, really…) then maybe she has some potential. As it stands, she might as well be a blank 40-12 id.

3 Likes

She would be a decent 40/12 if the card said “heap” not “hand”. :smiley:

I was correcting some auto-correct “hand” back to “heap” lately.

1 Like

Good point. If it said Heap, she would make any breaker into a pseudo-paperclip. Faeries forever!

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