Sentries hurt. Switchblade is by far a more efficient means of dealing with them than other alternatives.
Code Gates are pricey, in terms of the breakers to install. Zu is cheap but poopy vs mid-size, Yog has weaknesses, Gordian is sorta pricey. A Refractor is both cheap AND efficient with or without stealth creds.
BlacKat isn’t really better than Corroder, just different. and Lady is as good as Corroder within it’s use cases.
Thus, just run Switchblade/Refractor/Silencers.
The deck sets up ultra-fast, and just use your ‘real’ money for taking out barriers with Lady.
The cost of lady is prohibitive when you neither have scavenge nor Kate creds. Of course, you could always include scavenge too, but you start to run out of card slots for econ, tricks and/or multi-access.
I wouldn’t run Dyson Fractal Generators with BlacKat, just rely on cloaks and Ghost Runner in a pinch, remembering to use Datasucker to lower strength when possible rather than boosting strength, and only using stealth to break when there is more than one subroutine. It basically ends up eating one extra influence over Corroder, and is 4 to install rather than 2.
Like I said, I would have to test it more to really get a feel for how good or bad it is over Corroder, though. I haven’t even really convinced myself of it yet.
I dob’t think it’s entirely prohibitive. Installs can be’ cheaper’ with Hayley if you install multiple things (such as say, a cloak + lady both going down at once) due to click savings. And being able to waltz through Eli for 1 cred four times is nice, for a total of 4 elis passed for 8 credits. While Corroder is 4 elis passed for 18 credits.
If you need more counters, use a clone chip to bring a Lady back. OR, fit in a singleton Inti for handling micro nusiance barriers like Wraparound and Ice Wall and to a lesser extent, Bako.
With BlackKat, you still need 3 credits minimum to beat an Eli, assuming stealth is spent for both. On top of a 4 install cost and the cost to install either datasucker or more stealth infrastructure? No thanks. I’d rather Corroder and use the saved cardslots for more econ.
Blackat is either a rubbish morning star or a rubbish corroder. I’ve never figured it out. It might be worth trying here though. It’s a fixed str breaker that you can pump if you really, really have to. In combination with Datasucker it’s good against Eli - 1 token, 1 stealth; Hive - 2 stealth or 1 stealth +2; Next Silver. It’s no worse than Corroder for anything that isn’t enormous > str 4. I do worry that having more stealth pieces means you’ll be locked out eventually.
But trying to install 2 things for 5cr is harder to do than install 2 things for 3cr. But you also have to consider card slots. For me at least, I want more copies of lady than corroder. And card slots are REALLY premium in Stealth Hayley.
And to clearify, BlacKat has never been a serious contender for me.
I have to admit, I really don’t understand how that deck works but that’s on me.
So it seems like everybody is focusing on Stealth for Hayley. Is this her consensus optimal build? @gumOnShoe has his weird all-econ build, and I’m experimenting with an MO/Quest Completed build that I like, but the rest of you are going all-in on stealth.
Why I think Hayley is the right ID for QC is All-Nighter and SOT, which she can play cheaply, and I want both of those to make QC click. And the reason I play QC is because I’m tired of Caprice/Ash bullshit and want a way around it!
Step 1: Set up some econ engine and play the opener
Step 2: Get a rig
Step 3: Try to lock the game down
All of the pidly breakers are for everything that’s strength 3 or less; atman is there for anything stronger. Makes a lot of money each turn, so you can afford crappy breakers.
As for your deck, I like the way it looks. But, is lady working out with running three centrals a turn? She’s great for 1-2 centrals a turn, sure, but if you have to do 3-4 to get quest to go off (possibly trashing a crisium) she might not get there. Or if they put 3 code gates on centrals… same deal. I actually love quest completed, so it’d be awesome if you could figure it out. Crisium is the only thing in the meta keeping it in check right now.
Only light testing so far, but I haven’t had problems with excessive lady-use yet. Even though you need to run 3 centrals in one turn, you won’t do it more than once or twice per game (combo it with Maker’s/Legwork for some real value). And with Hayley, Comet and All-Nighter I often do have enough clicks to move stuff around - I once Comet’ed a Scavenge off a Maker’s Eye to move the CyCy from R&D to HQ, which would have let me drop a Lady from hand if I needed it as well, when doing a QC turn.
But needs more testing. So far I feel it comfortable to use a proven rig (Blitz Kate’s CyCy/Lady/Mimic) while testing QC shenanigans. I could take it into SHL4, but as I’m currently trying to juggle my painkillers to get enough sleep and sanity without sacrificing my liver (just for an ear infection…) I don’t think any results would be suspect!
Crisium will be a problem, but you want to kill those anyway to open up Maker’s Eye and Legwork.
True, and no eater means you can actually do that; I missed the commet, I agree its probably good now that I’ve seen that.
As far as what to cut… I’m not sure I like the opus package. You’re playing leprechaun to pull it off. Maybe it’s the best there is, but that’s the thing gobbling the most slots for what you want to be doing. With the same number of slots you could do 3x armitage & 2x kati and have a similarly consistent economy that plays nicely with your other resources. Otherwise, I think you pick between clot & legwork; they’re mostly for the same matchup. Then you have access to day job/lucky find. Personally, I’d pick the legworks and just go get 2 day jobs. What you cut? maybe you only need 1 notoriety? I think that gets you to around 46/47.
No love for the dirty laundry? It’s an event that also gives you a run; I’m sure you’ve noticed that’s pretty awesome with Hayley. But, then again, slots…
The reason I’m not looking into stealth is that I find it a bit boring; Probably because it looks too easy. Not a fan of that kind of deck.I’m sure its strong, right up until caprice happens and you’re annoyed.
Actually, the entire reason I went for Opus is that I get a complete econ package for 6 slots (3 opus, 1 SMC, 2 Leprechaun). Am I wrong in thinking that Opus gives you the best econ-per-card slot?
Agree that Dirty Laundry can work well in the package (with Comet), but yeah, slots. Clot I’ll also keep for the time being, because for me it does not do the same as Legwork - Legwork makes QC turns better, while Clot gives me a fighting chance vs Astrotrain. I need clot because the local players refuse to netdeck, so I got like zero experience against Astrotrain! Need the crutch… feel free to dump it if you want to try the deck. I should probably add some meat damage protection as well, one of my two losses in the copenhagen regional was because I miscounted the credits vs blue sun and the house blew up. I knew what he was doing, I knew what I had to do, and I still messed up >.<
I’m considering dumping Notoriety totally. Going to test it, but not sure - I did win once on 3 scored Notos, and the deck is perfectly capable of piggybacking them off a QC or playing two off one turn…
Just put my decks through the ringer; my deck is currently tier 2 in my estimation. It can upset, it can lend itself to a sweep; but I’m not sure it’ll hold up in elims. A few too many bad hands. Reddit was right, need some way to guarantee drawing into smc/breakers; but otherwise the deck puts a lock on the corp like nothing else. Leaves the corp with very few good options.
+Wins the slow game
-Coin flip the fast game
– I remain pretty unimpressed with the stealth decks I’ve seen.
46 cards 'cause I’m greedy and bad at Netrunner. Box-E is kind of expensive so it’s a drag to install it from hand, but the +2 MU helps if you need to float breakers, Parasite, Datasucker, SMC, unpawned Cache, etc all at once and it helps mitigate the Stamherk damage. It’s probably worth trying a swap for Astrolabe and putting the influence elsewhere.
Study Guide is another dubious card I’ve been trying out. Great if you can charge it with Stimhack, kind of a pain if not. In a lot of my play, I end up only charging it to 2 or 3 and dropping Atman on 4/5 for higher-strength code gates like Lotus Field and Tollbooth, so the CyCy package might be worth looking into, or probably just Gordian.
Aesop/Cache is kinda meh as well, but it helps bootstrap the econ early and lets you turn breaker installations into added value with Hayley’s ability. Real problem here is finding enough cards in time – QT sucks without PPVP and Earthrise is too damn expensive to drop early. Babyface helps keep the econ ball rolling while digging for breakers and I’m always happy to see it. Most games lost when I don’t draw enough SMC or any Personal Workshop.
Missing some of the econ from the first, which you can feel occasionally, but its still good enough without desperado. Fester remains an all star, along with sac construct + clot. Only way to play clot imo. Tried this with LLDS since you can pop breakers all of the time and play new ones down. Focused in on the bit that let me set up fast, and just riding Kati for the long game. Clots are good as sure gambles when not playing against an FA deck. I’ve shut down a few NEHs with this. So if you’re meta hasn’t shifted you should be able to wreck them with this.
Deep thought is for the RP game. Keep their economy under control and then just run R&D when you have to. Fester should make it difficult to keep the card under control.
Without test run or heavy draw you just want to see programs early. And since you can throw later copies away for money its not usually a big deal. Corroder is also still a highly efficient breaker that you can often play for free and gain a credit. Makes early runs against wraparound better. Deck is very much engineered for the early game and to take the pressure off of SMC so that it can get what’s not in your hand and you won’t be hurting for another copy.
If rush isn’t a problem in your meta and you need the long game, cache is probably the correct answer. Before aesops shows up, though ,it’ll be a dead spot in your rig if you play it early making it more difficult to get breakers down.
First, my foray into SHL has started a 1-6, so any comments from me apparently has to be taken with a grain of salt *
Really liking how this is shaking out. Rara-Scheherazade-Aesop turns any program into Sure Gambles - are there more than Clot and Deep Thought that can be included to make a sorta “hate bears” deck?
Why Inti-Corroder-Lady? Would have thought 2 fracters would be enough.
*that also means testing of my own deck has been a bit meaningless - I lose with both Blitz Kate and my Hayley deck, so that tells me very little about the decks.
but that’s on me.
*