Out on the Earthrise, eh? I’ve really enjoyed it.
Granted, SOT is awesome in any Crim deck, IMHO.
I’ve only tested Earthrise in about 6-7 games but have been unimpressed so far, but more testing needed . I think I prefer John Masanori currently.
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I have been quite dissatisfied with Earthrise Hotel out of Leela, and had much more success focusing on my clicks/money so that there are more click for Mr. Li. ERH has the problem of really only being very helpful when you have a strong board position, which you might argue is the opposite of what you want from from your draw, as I usually want it to get you to a stable board position ASAP.
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Like the article. As a newcomer to Leela (and criminal in general) I’ve a few (genuine) questions:
Why no sneakdoor? It would seem to synergise so well with Leela’s thing.
From your article you suggest that your ID ability is weakest against glacier. Doesn’t the security testing econ package compound that? And indeed can’t many of the same arguments against bank job be used against ST?
How do you fare against RP? It seems recieved wisdom that this is Leela’s worst match-up.
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Her ability is weaker against Glacier because in general they have less agendas in deck which stops your ability going off very often and they only score when the board is fairly locked down. So, to your question, why Security Testing, well many Glaciers still play open remotes, RP does and often so does HB with Eve Campaigns. However the point of the deck is to have the right economy package, there is a lot of Event economy, but that runs out so you have ST and Kati to support, depending on the match up one or the other will likely be better.
Also ST isn’t a dead card against decks not running remotes, it forces them to ice Archives and with something that costs more than the run gets you back, all you did was play a 0 cost card.
Sneakdoor is a solid include, I’ve gone between 0 and 2 but currently I find 3 Legwork better. Definitely a viable change though.
In regards to RP, I would agree its a tough match up. This is because of many of the Glacier points above, but also cards such as Caprice do extra work, especially on HQ (maybe I should reconsider Sneakdoor!). I think Drive By may help this issue eventually with some deck changes when its out. Siphon hurts RP a lot, as does killing their economy, which this deck can afford to do and can get its rig online pretty quick.
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I’ve been testing a list very similar to yours (was working on the idea, I felt that your list provided a better backbone than the one I have published) that uses medium instead of RDI. It has had varied results so far, but the list is still a bit rough around the edges. I’m not sure if Medium is the virus I want to be playing, but I think having 1-2 good viruses complementing your compression is very strong, and can force some very difficult decisions.
Hey Dave. This is Ben, I closed your accounts at Worlds. How’s it going?
In the deck that I posted well above which is by and large the same as yours (I ran fewer killers than you, and honestly you are probably on the right track here), I found Sneakdoor was a card I really didn’t want to run but felt like I needed because of Caprice on HQ out of RP. I always felt like I had good tools against Glacier, but they are HQ centric and if they could keep you out with Caprice, they could just slowly lock up the board and lock you out. This was compounded by the inclusion of Ichi 1.0 which is one of those cards that forces Garrote, which sucks, as you probably know. Sneakdoor gives you an out to the Caprice, but it’s a clunky one. This problem was actually one of the main reasons I went off the deck and started playing with Stealth Andy.
As good as Stealth Andy is, I really want Leela to work. So I’m interested to know: How has you’re RP match up been? I didn’t find it unwinnable, but if you got anything less than a very snappy, multi Account Siphon start, you were often in trouble if the pilot knew what they were doing.
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Hi Ben, thanks for bringing up that tragic moment at worlds 
I’ve been good thanks, worlds did a huge amount to reinvigorate my love of the game. Visiting the UK anytime soon?
In regards to the RP match up, I agree it is tough for this deck. I’m currently playing with John Masanori and an extra Security Testing in the deck which doesnt help the RP match up much, but it does give the deck some great power against NEH. My logic is that its very difficult to tech for both and so I’ve gone for NEH killing (which is probably the more prominent in my meta)
You may be right that getting a couple of Sneakdoors back in (ive wavered between 0-2) may help the deck not be so focused.
If you think about common match ups at tournaments, they are currently likely to be NEH, RP, PE and Blue Sun. I feel this deck does really well against 3 of those 4. Which I feel is pretty good.
While slightly off topic, how are you finding stealth Andy? Great against RP but not as good in the NEH match up? I’ve done very limited testing so would be good to hear your thoughts.
Few weeks ago i have played on a tournament with a similar deck and it is pretty strong. Lost only once (flatline) due to my bad decision… But deck was powerful both against PE and BS. Haven’t been paired against NEH.
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In our meta NEH is around, but it dropped off significantly after worlds, especially the straight FA versions. This might be people just feeling NEH fatigue, but I honestly feel like the meta is a little too teched out against them right now. Shapers are all running 2 Legworks along with the Criminals and most decks going for cheap, numerous breakers (like this deck) which also hoses NEH FA. Lady also made Shaper, previously a pretty good match up for NEH, a lot more questionable. I haven’t liked it the last few times I’ve played it.
With that in mind, I think it’s probably more important to take aim at RP. So again, as much as I dislike running Sneakdoor, I think it’s probably right.
Here’s the deck that I’ve just thrown together that takes your deck and my deck and synthesizes: http://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/157965
Mr. Li instead of Security Testing: This is the big one and the one will require the most convincing. I found that when I’m not playing with Andy’s hero power, I just want this guy in my criminal decks even more. The deck runs a lot of 1 or 2 ofs and it helps you to have the cards that take advantage of Leela’s ability when it goes off. Also it’s not reliant on running like John Massanori. I find this deck takes a lot of time just building up and Mr. Li makes that process much less painful. Security testing is an awesome card, but I feel like it’s just way better in Andy since your chances of having desperado and testing early are much higher. Testing is really good vs NEH and PE, is no slouch vs RP and pretty terrible vs BS. Mr. Li is really good against vs RP and Blue Sun, and no slouch vs NEH (find those breakers!) and Jinteki (Choosing which cards you’ll have in the later game is great against them and it also digs you towards the end all be all answer vs PE that is FBF). I think they come out about even, but I value the ability to find what I want really highly in Leela, so I give it the nod. It definitely means some less explosive starts but will give you a much better mid and end game. It might be that I want to cut something else so I can run both… but I don’t know that is, because it’s not Kati.
-1 RDI and -1 Plascrete, +1 FBF and Utopia Shard: this is another advantage of running Mr. Li since it means I’ll generally find one of my RDIs if I want it by the mid game. I really like Utopia Shard (a little bit softer vs Scorch, but a lot stronger against everyone else). Comboing it with Legwork is dirty. FBF is just game over vs PE 9 times out of 10
-1 Special order, + 1 Express Delivery: Again, Mr. Li lets you do this. They are pretty similar cards, ED just lets you find those non-breaker 1 ofs a little more easily .
-1 Femme +1 Sneakdoor: I cut the Femme because it’s so damn expensive. Sneakdoor because of the reasons I put forward before.
-1 Inside Job, +1 SOT: This one was a hard cut since IJ is really good with Leela’s ability, but I think SOT is your end game card and you need access to it. Plus, it could be another IJ.
-1 Rex: Because I’m a purist and I play 45 cards. And becasue my version is a Mr. Li deck. No need for 3 copies.
EDIT: As to Stealth Andy, it’s great. I think it’ll be the runner deck to beat this SC season. it gives up some percentage of its match against NEH compared to my fairly standard Andy Sucker list from worlds but not by as much as you’d think (list: http://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/170790 ). On the other hand, it is way way better vs RP and Blue Sun, and PE if you run filter. My hope is that the threat of Filter scares the good players off of PE so I can cut the filter for Utopia shard. Shard makes running only 2 Legworks hurt a lot worse. Here is the list I would play tomorrow: http://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/189401
And no, unfortunately I wont be going to the UK anytime soon. My family used to live there but at this point they’ve all moved back stateside or elsewhere. Next time I do head back that way I’ll definitely hit you up so we can hang out and play some Netrunner there.
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I think Mr Li is a solid include, and I think better than Earthrise currently. I will play around with him more.
I’ve a couple of questions about the list you put together from our combined testing.
1 Inside Job - this seems strange to me. It combos really well with R&DI, and is solid in most match ups.
1 Express Delivery over 1 Special Order - seems full of crazy to me. Getting solid remote pressure in place ASAP is priorty no. 1 for Leela, Special Order really is amazing for this. Is Express Delivery worth it with Mr Li in the deck?
1 Feedback Filter - I’ve found PE to be an easy enough match up for Leela due to her ability, is this needed?
I’m uncomfortable dropping to 1 Plascrete but that’s due to lots of flatline decks in my meta. I don’t like not having Femme available, its too good for Tollbooths and the deck can afford it.
Have you tested Security Testing & Kati in the same deck with Leela? Its really good, its ensures the right economy engine for the right match up. With Mr Li this would be even better for getting the Desperado and Security Testing combo going.
Regarding the RP match up, I’m not sure what can be done other than adding in Sneakdoor (is 1 enough?) without an overhaul of the influence.
Thanks for all the effort and feedback, you’ve given me loads to think about and test. I’m certain Leela can be strong, especially in the right meta. I will do some more testing (especially with Mr Li) and come back to you.
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Love Mr Li here. Guess he helps with those 1 ofs. I like Sneakdoor, but only one makes it wonky. It does pair well with Utopia in your build, but I’d like it more with HQI. I had Li in initially, and will go back to him.
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I’ve played a fair few games using Cerberus’ list. It doesn’t feel different enough from Andy decks though. I feel the only difference is that the Leela deck has a stronger mid to late game and Andy has stronger early game.
Given how fast NEH is and that RP and Blue Sun are weakest early game, I believe Andromeda is still the better choice.
Having said that, she IS fun to play and quite good in her own right. I’m messing around with a Logos build right now without security testing that runs far less, but bursts after a corp score (with Logos getting the appropriate burst tool). It’s not as good so far, I’m sad to say. I’d really hoped to see something different out of criminal than the ever present Desperado/Sec Testing/Dirty Laundry/ Account Siphon.
Played a few games tonight with 3x Express Delivery, running zero Special order. It was actually totally fine . It still might be crazy to run zero Special Order in a tournament, but I am convinced that in the breaker-dense Leela decks, a mix of Order/Delivery is better than 3 copies of SO.
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Andy’s boring.
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I played Logos Leela when the identity first came out and was quite disappointed. It flopped and I did quite poorly with it, though that probably has more to do with my playstyle as a Runner than any flaws with the deck or identity itself. (A word on my playstyle - Iain Sterling is the only Runner in the game that I have a losing record with - patience is not my strongest virtue in Netrunner.)
Early last week, a rather aggressive Desperado/Security Testing Leela deck tore apart my Cerebral Imaging deck in a way that Andromeda simply is not capable of pulling off. I was stunned, because I hadn’t seen anything like this out of Leela before… She’s been relatively ignored locally, we’re five weeks into league play and she hasn’t been played once at my FLGS. I became excited at the prospect of building a similar deck, but honestly consider myself rather bad at deck-building from scratch, so I revisited this thread looking for ideas.
I was inspired by the decks that @Cerberus, @spags, and @PeekaySK posted. I threw some version of their lists side-by-side, took note of something like 35 cards in common between all three decks, threw those 35-ish cards into a new decklist and then filled in the remaining 10 slots myself. The resulting decklist (and its minor variations) went 8-0 when I grabbed a few of the better local players (who I knew couldn’t make it to this weekend’s Store Championship) and tested against some of their best Corp decks. Quite pleased with the results, I sleeved it and took it to Store Champs yesterday.
I ended up going 4-1 in the 22-player Store Championship with it, my only loss being in the final round to RP Glacier. I don’t anticipate bringing anything new to the conversation since this was based almost solely on existing lists already posted to this thread, but hey, here’s yet another variation of those lists for anyone who’s been tweaking them already:
Leela Patel: Trained Pragmatist (All That Remains)
Event (18)
- 2x Account Siphon (Core Set)
- 2x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
- 2x Emergency Shutdown (Cyber Exodus)
- 3x Inside Job (Core Set)
- 2x Legwork (Honor and Profit)
- 2x Lucky Find (Double Time) ••••
- 2x Special Order (Core Set)
- 3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
Hardware (7)
- 3x Desperado (Core Set)
- 2x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
- 2x R&D Interface (Future Proof) ••••
Resource (8)
- 3x Earthrise Hotel (The Source)
- 3x Kati Jones (Humanity’s Shadow)
- 2x Security Testing (Honor and Profit)
Icebreaker (10)
- 2x Cerberus “Rex” H2 (All That Remains)
- 2x Corroder (Core Set) ••••
- 3x Faerie (Future Proof)
- 1x Femme Fatale (Core Set)
- 1x Mimic (Core Set) •
- 1x Passport (Honor and Profit)
Program (2)
- 2x Datasucker (Core Set) ••
15 influence spent (max 15)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Source
I started with my Criminal standard of 3 Account Siphons and 2 Inside Jobs, but quickly realized that swapping the third copy of one for the other was the right call for this Leela deck. I tried a build without Femme, but ended up adding it back in. The card swaps I debated most in the hours before the tournament was whether I wanted a third copy of Special Order, Rex, or Earthrise Hotel. I ended up settling on Earthrise, but I’m now leaning toward Special Order in hindsight.
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RP was one of the reasons I chose to go with Maker’s Eyes over Lucky Finds. It does make my openings a bitt less consistent in terms of having econ, but I found having two more “I gotta bounce that shit NOW” cards very, very useful.
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I need to play the Leela vs. RP match-up more to gauge further tweaks. I was worried about the Jinteki match-up most of all and - ironically enough - four of my five matches were against Jinteki, and I did very well in all but the last. I’m not sure any changes to my Runner deck could have salvaged the last RP game, the RP deck just had everything it needed when it needed it. My opponent’s first dozen cards or so included a couple Hedge Funds, two Celebrity Gifts, eight ice, and a single Future Perfect. He had Tsurugi, Komainu, and Tollbooth rezzed on central servers, and a double-iced remote protected by Caprice. I hit two different Future Perfects in R&D, stealing one, but that would be my only steal before he scored two different Nisei agendas. With him having two Nisei counters, I called the game at that point, so we would have plenty of time for the second half of the match.
If I’m playing around with four influence to counter RP, Parasites will probably serve me better than Lucky Find or Maker’s Eye. And since I’m not running Garrote, I’ve got the MU to run them as well.
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Might be just my meta, but 3x Jackson plus 1-2 Interns is industry standard for RP around here, due to all the Noise running around. Parasites without recursion feel like mostly waste unless you do manage to choke them on econ completely. Against a glacier/late-game corp, I’d rather play cards that help me win faster than cards that keep me in the running longer.
Probably personal preference though.
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Maybe it’s stupid but i did some test with 2 crescentus 2 emergency shutdown in my Leela for the RP match up and it seems ok. Faerie + crescentus is really nice early game when the corp want to rez those expensive sentries but can also be usefull against Wall of Thorn or Tollbooth. I would rather go for crescentus instead of parasite to save (a lot of) influence.
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