Order and Chaos Corp Card Evaluation

5 to kill pad, 5 to take NAPD, 6 to kill sansan, 1 just to check that anything isn’t astro? That sounds bonkers to me.

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I think people are too hung up with the idea of a horizontal deck with Gagarin. In a vertical glacier it’s plus 1 to access each card in the scoring server plus it gives some protection to economy assets in a secondary server. And if you making them run the scoring server over and over that adds up pretty quickly. Having said that I don’t think it will work yet because I think Weyland needs an economy ID to function and while the extra influence plus Mark Yale might see you through in Titan I don’t see how either of the others will manage.

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If it protects the asset econ, does that count as econ? It’s not as direct as BABW and GRNDL, (or even BWBI) but it makes some sense.

Yeah my other idea was to build a Gagarin glacier deck that plays a lot of things that can bluff as Agendas. GRNDL and Reversed Accounts being the first two that came to mind. This way, you benefit if they don’t run it, and you benefit if they do. Red Herrings seems decent in Gagarin too, only 1 influence. Ash still better, though. As you said, economy is the biggest issue in Weyland outside of Blue Sun and BABW. Titan seems to have the most potential to me because Mark Yale is quite a strong economy card.

While the Anarch IDs are all good (seriously, it’s weird. Every single Anarch ID in the game is good), Weyland still seems to be lacking.

Blue Sun grants both economy, and removes the inherent drawback in ICE in that you commit credits permanently, even if the server only temporarily needs to be defended.

What do the new ones provide?
Titan gives you free Atlas counters, which is it’s main benefit. This is good! But the other perks with Yale and such, I’m not sold on yet. It’s hard enough to score, and the economic benefits (relying on an asset too) don’t seem on par with economic benefits BABW or Blue Sun provide.

Gagarin doesn’t really have cards to make it work yet. You need more never-advance threats, or good and nasty upgrades (Hokusai-grid like) to make it work. It minorly disincentivizes checking jacksons and melanges, but meh. Deckslots.

Argus is bleh. I mean, you don’t run last click anyway vs a scorching Weyland, for fear of Snare. It’s got minor tempo perks, but only when you’re losing. As a runner, I’m going to take and clear the tag, or just ditch two cards and not care from behind my two plascretes. Either way, it’s not a big deal, and telegraphs that your deck is almost certainly about damage or tag punishment. Blue Sun probably taxes more simply by getting nastier ICE up faster.

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The big issue with Weyland I think is still economy. Blue Sun is the best Weyland because of Oversight economy, IMO. It’s mind-boggling to think that Weyland still only has 1 Transaction Operation, and it’s from the Core Set**. Moreover, it’s debatably only good in BABW. Plenty of Weyland Agendas give heaps of credits, but you can’t stack up Bad Pub if you’re playing any traditional scoring strategy. This leaves Weyland to either play Blue Sun or play meat damage flatline strategies, which is unreliable with how clever and well-equipped Runners are currently. Argus ability is interesting; the issue is that it only triggers on stolen Agendas. To make the most out of your ability, you play many Agendas, but you bloat your deck with relatively useless cards. I don’t know how to fix Argus; it seems very weak right now, but as we know, sometimes IDs take time to get support and hit their stride. I wasn’t around at the time, but I hear RP wasn’t considered too good when it first came out, and now I think it’s generally considered the strongest Corporation ID.

** Sorry, forgot Commercialization and Paywall Implementation :wink:

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And those transactions are all wildly different strategies. It is weird, indeed. I too am not enamored with the new IDs but I think Titan will see competitive play. The best action is still running the scorch threat, I think. ToL/SanSan into Sea source and Jacksons. Flex 1-3 influence. Prolly reclamation order.

Agreed on Weylands in-faction economy options. I feel like Weyland should be richer than what their cards allow them to do. Compare to HB, who has Adonis and Eve for assets, Green and Blue Level for always useful money operations, and Peak Efficiency and Successful Demonstration as situational economy operations, both of which are better than either of Weylands situational economy operations.

Edit: Oh and don’t forget Reuse for Weyland, although I feel that it is much better out of HB’s CI or Jinteki’s IG than anything of Weylands.

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honestly, it’s about as slippery as NEH NEARPAD, and that deck can win a fair amount of games, especially versus people who have never seen it before. I think I"ll definitely be giving this deck a spin, although ti would really suck to lose GT on a random access

On Gagarin, I’m with @bayushi_david - I think one-remote glacier is the way to go. Ash/Red Herrings + any ice early game is a really good way to get your Atlas token or break the runner’s bank. Also worth noting that RSVP effectively becomes a 3-for-4 ETR Code Gate on remotes irrespective of what else is in the server. Pretty taxing. Worth 2 influence? I’m not sure but certainly worth testing. Oh, and then there’s NAPD of course, 5 to steal from a remote before Ice and Upgrade costs. Tasty.

As a lover of weird and janky strategies, Gagarin is one of the two Weyland IDs I’m most excited to build with once I get O&C. The other? BWBI, of course!

All this talk of red herrings in Gagarin makes me wish it was 1 influence like moistloft mentioned earlier and not 2 like it actually is.
I don’t know about you guys but I feel like the influence is better spent on more ash or maybe a tollbooth or maybe even pool a bit more influence and go with caprice.

best name butchery ever

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My favorite AAA splash so far: space camp in industrial genomics… you wanna trash something? let me just stack up those cerebral overwriters/future perfects/Ronins even more…

?? can’t use firmware on agendas

Unfortunately Eater is also the perfect counter to IG unless you pack a Swordsman on archives… which isn’t a bad idea.

The main problem of horizontal play in Gargarin being good even in the forseeable future is that one bad publicity nullifies your identity. No Hostile Takeovers and no Geothermal Frackings seems like a rough ride for Weyland. A lot of cards need to appear for it to work.

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Its right there in your own comment - swordsman destroys (literally! :D) this tactic.

after playing against some of it last night, let me just say, this Space ICE is absolutely insane once it is rezzed… BWBI durdle is the new ITD

Yeah, as long as we’re talking about card impressions, I have to say the space ICE is by far the biggest surprise to me; I thought they’d be playable, but they feel way better than that. they’re (essentially) immune to de-rezzing, highly resistant to parasite, and it’s easy to have so many of them that femme is a minor setback. So far as a runner the only card that really feels like it “solves” the problem is d4v1d spamming with cutlery, but those are hard splashes outside of anarch.

I honestly think BWBI just became playable (not great; I realize this is a durdle tactic, but wow can you set up some nasty, nasty servers with very little in the way of real money.)

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It sure seems impossible for weyland to play a glacier strategy with NAPDs and ashes and the like. Nope, simply off the table. There’s no way that could be good.

What we do need, though, is a half-decent 5/3 for weyland.

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Yeah, it sure seem impossible.