Shutdown Jinteki is dead! Long live shutdown Jinteki!

[ff0x]

While I don’t know why he prefers Shock, I do because they trigger from Archives when the Runner tries to build sucker tokens.

[nmh]

@cspieker

In the original shutdown list Shock was to make it problematic for the runner to check archives every time you played Power Shutdown. Now that you’ve got Crick which threatens to return Batty that might not be as much of an issue.[/quote]
I’m not familiar with the old PE/PS lists but that makes sense. My initial feeling is that Crick solves the archives problem pretty well on its own and I love Snare with all my heart, although a 2-1, 2-2, or 3-1 split between Snare/Shock might end up being a good compromise.

[quote]Would Chronos Project be a reasonable switch with House of Knives?

I’m going back and forth between the two. HoK is pretty nuts, but we’re not really a flatline deck and Chronos feels a lot better as a singleton than HoK.

Here’s my current list for reference:

[URL=http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/jinteki-core]Jinteki: Personal Evolution[/URL]

Agenda (12)
1 Chronos Project
3 Clone Retirement
3 Fetal AI
2 Gila Hands Arcology
1 Philotic Entanglement
2 The Future Perfect

Asset (8)
2 Blacklist ••
3 Jackson Howard •••
3 Snare!

Upgrade (3)
3 Marcus Batty

Operation (10)
1 Archived Memories ••
2 Celebrity Gift
3 Hedge Fund
2 Medical Research Fundraiser
2 Power Shutdown ••••

Barrier (4)
3 Himitsu-Bako
1 Wall of Static

Code Gate (5)
2 Crick
3 Lotus Field

Sentry (6)
2 Archer ••••
2 Cortex Lock
2 Grim

ICE (1)
1 Chimera

[king_mob]

I think 3 slots for shock! is ok as they can still punish multi access, but yes your right crick makes many runners think twice about archives. Potentially those slots could be pretty solid snares.

[phette23]

As others have said, Shock! is preferred over Snare! because it fires from Archives. Power Shutdown tends to prompt Archives runs, even late in the game when the runner knows there are Shocks! in there. I’ve had it pay off more than Snare! in terms of net damage due to repeated Archives runs; I’ve also had it deter runners from checking Archives so I can hide agendas in there, sort of Industrial Genomics like.

Lastly, Shock costs nothing to trigger and fires from everywhere. You’re always happy to see it no matter the game state, whereas Snare is sometimes a dead card if you’re struggling for economy or need to discard it.

[king_mob]

Your right, shock and shutdown have a strong synergy, and its the repeated archive runs where shock makes its money. Fetal and snare doing nothing out of archives and fire only once. Its tough, like i said snares could fill the shock slots pretty sweet, but they are damn expensive too.

[kenobob]

Subliminal Messaging over the expanded agenda suite with Gilas?

[Myriad]

I like the idea of including the upcoming an offer you can’t refuse. It turns on Archer and can be played to hamstring a runner, or get you closer to winning.

I am probably going to put it in over my x1 alleal.

This deck has been pretty well off in my area as well. Games run long, but are very fun.

Anyone else had any luck with this deck?

[whatisthistreachery]

Hopping in to ask about viability of It’s a Trap! in shutdown Jinteki. I know this thread is waiting for Chronos Protocol but just dropping a line.

[king_mob]

Its hard to say but i think Its a trap! suffers from a similar problem to markus - the runner choses what to trash.

[EdjeMaker]

I’ve seen a deck like this sweep a tournament,

but you wont belive the key difference it had…

Use Nisei Division

Timmy Wong won his first SC of the year using a variant of this deck with NESEI, Chum, and Snowflake.

It should be posted still in the winning decklists thread>

I’m thinking about returning too it myself,

I think He and I were some of the first people to win tournaments with Nisei

[Myriad]

I considered it in IG too, as it has some good synergy. I went back to PE because of the net damage, but perhaps because of the new agendas coming out, it might be viable in a different shell.

[firesa]

lol the fact that timmy wong was the pilot means noone else will do nearly as well with it timmy wong is a wizard

[king_mob]

Its like @whatisthistreachery said - the real ID for this is going to be CP. Needling for 1 net by itself suddenly has amazing utility. You’d never even need to flatline, just snipe all the breakers out of their hand.

[EdjeMaker]

You’d be surprised ^^

the secret is that Nisei is at the same time an Econ Identity and a Click Compression Identity. You just need to build it in certain ways and then master the Psi-Game.
But seriously when you can rez a threatening server for a total of 3 credits(Chum -> Snowflake), then use the server as a money gaining device… it’s bad enough. But on top of that you can slot a Caprice and a Batty… AND nudge their psi games into a tempo neutral comrpession trap… it starts to get silly… and then you rez an Archer.

[MasterAir]

Master the psi-game is a fallacy. I’ve come back from my original ‘it’s completely random’ position. But if you suck at psi games you can just roll a dice. In which case your opponent’s psi-mastery is useless.

[Zeromus]

Nah, the psi-master just gets to start saving/earning money while the runner wastes it. =-)

[linuxmaier]

@MasterAir

Master the psi-game is a fallacy. I’ve come back from my original ‘it’s completely random’ position. But if you suck at psi games you can just roll a dice. In which case your opponent’s psi-mastery is useless.

Echoing @Zeromus, especially if the corp is playing Nisei Division, you’re giving them a real benefit if you start to play random because they turn every psi game into a pop-up.

[xerxes]

Roll a weighted die, of course. As the runner you want a slightly higher chance of picking 0 than 1 than 2, opposite for the corp (to a smaller degree).

[linuxmaier]

@xerxes

Roll a weighted die, of course. As the runner you want a slightly higher chance of picking 0 than 1 than 2, opposite for the corp (to a smaller degree).

I mean, we’ve had this conversation a million times before on this and every forum in existence, but if you roll a weighted die that prefers 0 over the other numbers then you’re not necessarily going to get 33% chance to win if the corp cottons to the trick. Basically, if you try to use psi-skill for a psi game then you’re opening yourself up to being worse than your opponent at the “clearly I cannot drink the wine in front of you” game. If you remove skill by playing it random (even with weights), then you give your opponent a way to benefit more from psi games than you.

[xerxes]

@linuxmaier

I mean, we’ve had this conversation a million times before on this and every forum in existence, but if you roll a weighted die that prefers 0 over the other numbers then you’re not necessarily going to get 33% chance to win if the corp cottons to the trick.

But you’ll save enough money that the lower than 33% probability is worth it. That’s how the weight is determined, by how much money is worth to you versus winning the psi game.

@linuxmaier

If you remove skill by playing it random (even with weights), then you give your opponent a way to benefit more from psi games than you.

No. The nash equilibrium cannot be exploited, almost by definition.