I think they’re from the fantasy flight twitter
Laguna seems shit hot.
1 Like
Laguna + Symmetrical seems great. A click for 2 cards and a credit, repeatable once a turn. A+++.
6 Likes
I’m not sure where to come down on Laguna. 5 credits is a huge tempo hit, meaning you won’t be able to play the cards you’re drawing. On the other hand, we know Jackson draw is crazy powerful and clearly undercosted. On the other other hand, any 5c resource makes you extremely vulnerable to tags. On the fourth hand, once you have this down you can dig for your answers and get set up really quickly.
How much tempo can you sacrifice now in order to build tempo later? Kind of the eternal Shaper question I guess. Either way it doesn’t help with asset spam, so it’s irrelevant.
2 Likes
Just spitballing, but with Daily, Laguna, and Temujin, you can make a pretty reasonable Career Fair shaper. This thing’s weakness is its effect on your tempo, which is pretty much what career fair was designed to help with.
I agree it doesn’t directly help with asset spam, but a draw engine is like your infrastructure; if it’s in a good state, it’ll help you do pretty much anything else you want to do in the game.
2 Likes
Plus Career Fair give some leeway when you overdraw (Modded as well, but it’s not so popular). It sounds like jank, but having Laguna and Professional Contacts for fine tune drawing is appealing.
all for the low low cost of 2 clicks and 7 creds! 1 click if you’re Hayley :0
I mean pro-co was considered quite good for awhile (and still isn’t bad is argue). Admittedly a little cheaper to setup (though not much), and spamable, but also less efficient than this would be when setup (and, even with pro-co, the number of times I drew more than 2 cards a turn was pretty low).
Also, the Laguna + Symmetrical engine is modular; Laguna functions well without symmetrical, and vica versa. You don’t need its entire cost up front. Unless you are Hayley 
1 Like
Tangenting, Ayla’s console has Khan/Gauntlet-levels of synergy with the ID (which is to say none).
Shame; I thought they could’ve gone pretty creative with her. Glad they didn’t pigeonhole it on NVRAM though.
2 Likes
Ubax seems pretty decent. $5 for clickless card draw and 1mu seems about right to me. Would be pushed at $4.
Laguna is intriguing, but I’m not sure I want to play it over Proco, which is far easier to use multiple times in a turn.
Normally the card will be worth more than the credit, but on average I’d say you’ll use Laguna once per turn, and Proco twice per turn, meaning the proco will pay for itself more quickly. Maybe this isn’t the right comparison, but as both are 5 cost resources it’s hard to resist.
Maybe Laguna could support a Faust shaper list using levy, which turbo draws and then runs wherever it wants. I’m currently playing that list with Proco.
Ubax looks reasonable, but will have to wait until the asset spam meta dies. I could see myself installing it against more vertical lists.
4 Likes
i was mostly joking, but i do actually like Laguna a lot
i’m not sure if i’d also go in on Symmetrical, but i suppose as a drip econ item, it’s just as fine as any other option if you’re planning to click to draw a lot. i feel like if you’re running Laguna, you’re not also running things like Diesel, Quality Time, etc.
but some clickless draw in Astrolabe/Ubax is prob really useful
i’ve seen this comment a lot, but i don’t know if i agree with it. sure, on the premise that you draw a bunch of times with ProCo and don’t have to potentially discard as much, but if you’re digging for a particular card or just need to draw up after some net damage or for Faust or something, Laguna is insanely powerful. imagine taking some brain damage and worrying about hitting a snare. or hitting a snare and needing to draw back up.
As been noted before: both look really good in hayley builds. Proco is just a massive cost upfront . If you combo it with clickless drip money (data folding, Underworld contacts, casts,…) it could be good.
Am I the only one that finds Ubax a bit… dull? Some consoles do some really unique and interesting things that you can build a deck around, like Obelus or Doppelganger or Maw, so this one just drawing you a card each turn is a bit underwhelming. I know it’s a fundamental, but I kinda wish they’d gone a bit beyond that
I mean if we’re saying you can’t build a deck around passive draw, Wyldside/Adjusted/Faust would like to have a word here.
I agree it’s dull though.
1 Like
What if…that console is not part of the tournament-legal cards? And it evolves game over game?
We’ve been accepting all cards as tournament legal, but maybe they are not…
I’ve read (from other Stimhackers) that the campaign cards have a different symbol associated with their card number. It doesn’t mean that there isn’t an ‘upgraded’ version of the console for the campaign, but it seems the card preview is going to be the tournament-legal card.
2 Likes
You can certainly brainstorm scenarios where the runner wants to use Laguna twice in a turn, but I still think it would happen significantly less often than with ProCo.
I think on a “quiet” turn, it would be pretty normal to click ProCo twice, perhaps install something, then do something else on last click (make a run, play an event). In fact for ProCo to be worth it, you have to be looking at clicking it twice on a good number of turns, otherwise installing Symetrical Visage would have been better.
I find it harder to picture a similar setup turn with Laguna, which would bring 4 fresh cards into hand with only 2 clicks left to use them, and no extra money gained. Maybe I’m wrong, and this kind of turn will work in a faster more aggressive shaper deck, with or without Faust. It just seems like you’ll end up discarding alot of cards that you might want later.
At least Wyldside had a downside (at first) apart from its credits, and meant you had to structure your turn differently. It was passive but it was more involved than “just get a card”. I agree you can build a deck around passive draw, but it’s more engaging if that draw comes with extra conditions and decisions for the player to make: Astrolabe in the same faction would be a good example
1 Like
Jamming a lot of money events into your deck can make it pay off better than ProCo, I think. In a very theoretical framing, if every sixth card drawn is a Sure Gamble (or equivalent), then Laguna goes [click, click, click, Gamble] for a total of five cards and four creds, while ProCo would give you four cards and four creds for the same click investment.*
You’re right that discarding may be a problem (although shaper often want to discard stuff because of Clone Chip anyway), and then we can consider the “Do an action and get money” events: Dirty Laundry, Career Fair, and Modded. Provided your deck is well-built enough to use them fairly consistently as they’re drawn, they aren’t dissimilar to “Gain 3 creds when you draw this card”, which helps to alleviate the discard issues.
I think Laguna can probably result in a deck that has a similar tempo to PPVP with this approach. It would have a higher variance start and maybe even need a bonus Levy, though.
*Edit: I’ve unintentionally been a bit misleading here. If you include playing the Gamble, ProCo gives 3 and 3/7 cards plus 5 and 5/7 credits for those four clicks, which isn’t quite so straightforward. But the point I was trying to make is that by replacing other cards in your deck with econ cards, Laguna can match ProCo’s income but with faster card draw - at the cost of utility deck slots.
6 Likes
My mind is… a fun place.
UBAX + Laguna + Wyldcakes = Click once and draw 5 cards. Faust is in heaven.
Laguna would push me to play Symmetrical Visage. It would also push me to play more Events than in a normal Kate deck, so I would be predisposed to put it in Hayley. And because I have a bunch of Events, Comet looks like a very interesting choice. I CAN NOW FINALLY MAKE A HAYLEY COMET DECK.
I do agree that UBAX looks underwhelming, but not because of the Astrolabe comparison. Astrolabe has the problem that in any non-asset spam matchup, the likelihood that it actually is just an Akabatsu Mem Chip is pretty high. It only ever does something in one matchup. UBAX will at least deliver something in every matchup, just not necessarily a useful something.
As someone who plays a ton of ProCo in Sunny, Laguna looks very strong to me. I do think that it will go in decks that want Symmetrical Visage instead of ProCo. ProCo has a very regular cadence to its turns, Click ProCo twice, then Install/Play two things. It’s a heck of a setup card because it pays you while you’re setting up. The downside is two-fold: Firstly, you’re doing nothing but setting up while you’re getting value from ProCo (Because if you do it less than twice a turn, Symmetrical is just better). Secondly, that 5 cost to install is a real problem and tempo hit. (I solve it in Sunny by having more drip econ than Congress Kate, and also The Supplier. Those aren’t really palatable options for most Runners, though.)
So with that said, Laguna wants Symmetrical, and only demands one click a turn if you want its effect, which you usually do. Beth also makes Laguna better… I’m really having visions of a monster Hayley Comet Laguna deck where every click she does performs at least two actions. The problem will be setup time.
5 Likes