I think paying 3 for a single RM puts it exactly where it should be. The point of the card from the start was to make caprice less of a sure win-condition, and if a runner takes a 6 inf hit to specifically counter caprice (let’s not kid ourselves, mostly this single card is the purpose) you should be able to counterplay them with efficiency and good play.
I think the MWL created a good spot for stuff like RM. Now it is a real cost to include, but still keeps some bothersome things a bit more in check. I’m running Grail Palana and have encountered kitten in the wild several times after MWL. Lost a few agendas to it as well, but since i run Scarcity and have other avenues of scoring i have won most of those games.
Usually you can identify the weaknesses of the opposing deck once you see RM and can count their influence.
The major problem was the easy access to RM and together with Blackmail in my experience. That is surely fixed now.
I’m waiting to hear how her ability works with mulliganing… For an ID that’s all about consistency, I really want to hear just how consistent she’ll be.
I’m excited about having a generic shaper ID for whenever I have generic shaper plans that aren’t specifically served by Kate or Hayley though.
I feel like bios will turn out to be the magnum opus ID. We’ve seen people playing magnum opus, 3 smc, 3 test run out of chaos theory just to be sure of getting turn 1 opus. Bios can achieve the same consistency without bothering with the test runs (which are pretty weak even as a tool for opus, since you need to draw and reinstall it, so it takes almost 2 whole turns to be up and running). Hypergeometric calculator tells me that, assuming that NVRAM is first, then draw hand, and that mulligans don’t effect NVRAM (which is my guess for how it functions), you have roughly a 94% chance of drawing or mulliganing into an opus or smc, which is pretty reliable.
Maybe there’s a build that instead wants to mulligan for pro co or Laguna Velasco every game (if so, my guess is Laguna–I think its more powerful than pro co, plus it can’t be hit my MCA informant). But either way, Bios seems like an ID that is less about value and more about starting with some 1 key engine card every game.
Omitting RM countering Jackson seems dubious (not to mention other important cards; Ash, Jeeves, Batty, Sandburg, etc.). The problem with RM is the opposite of what’s stated; it’s too broad. If it was just a counter to Caprice, it would be fine (or at least better).
And, continuing on that train of thought, the fact that it so heavily affects such cards is very problematic to the games design. Hard counters are always bad design. Hard counters that counter a broad card pool (some of which were problems, some of which aren’t) is abysmal.
Even neglecting the competitive game, RM should not be in the game. Within the competitive game, RM definitely should not be in the game.
Similarly, and perhaps an even better example on this front, Sifr invalidates the strategy of “using ICE”. It is not something that should have ever been introduced into the card pool.
I also don’t think scarcity alone would prevent RM; SoT and Déjà Vu both exist. In general, runner will have an easier time sticking a current in play than you if they’re playing a proper deck (and if I’m playing against Palana, I’m definitely aiming to keep that current in play).
Misunderstand me correctly here. I wrote an article crapping all over this card.
What i’m saying is that if is wasn’t for Caprice, no-one would spend the influence on it. And if they are spending 3 influence per copy their deck-strength has now gone down significantly in other areas as to while they may have a good matchup versus specific glacier, the deck will have real weaknesses.
If they have 2 copies that is six influence, and if they have one it is very inconsistent.
The actual card design is still horrible, but now it is less of an autoinclude.
You bring up that it’s “less of an auto include now”, and I think that’s an interesting stance. I feel like including Rumor Mill is better now than it has been in a long time, because so many people are playing Caprice decks in response to the MWL. Rumor Mill for 3 influence in a meta that is exclusively female clone detectives is better than for 0 influence in sausage-fest meta.
It’ll be interesting to see how it stabilizes (you might be right, eventually), but right now, the meta feels like it buffed Rumor Mill by making people think the problem was gone.
We agree on the broad strokes i think though, in that it hurts decks that include it, but I still think it doesn’t go far enough. Basically we have the traditional “hard counter” problem going on now with glacier. I feel like Palana is in a very good spot against non-RM decks, and folds to RM decks. That isn’t a fun situation, and I think we’d agree on that front too. And RM decks do pay a cost to be good against Palana, but I don’t feel it’s so insurmountable that they cannot be decently rounded.
Rumor Mill, Sifr, and Caprice should just be banned, and I think glacier would be in a healthier spot.
It’s a classic predator-prey population dynamic. Previously, Rumor Mill was overharvesting Caprice decks, keeping the population artificially low. Now, the ecosystem has changed with the reduced threat of predation, and the population levels are fluctuating wildly. We’ll level out to a new equilibrium where the risk of playing a Caprice deck is roughly stable with respect to the chance of seeing Rumor Mill in the wild.
Agreed, the number of Caprice decks will likely die down, and the inclusion of Rumor Mill will become less inticing. But the fact that this can be considered “predator/prey” (even jokingly) is the real problem.
It’s like some asymmetrical rock-paper-scissors mess. Decks can have weaknesses and strengths, that’s fine. But hoping you don’t come across the scissors as you’re playing paper is not fun.
Would glacier really be healthy with Caprice banned? Ash and Batty are alright, but I don’t think they’re enough to make glacier competitive. I’d much rather ban Friends than Caprice if I was going to ban one glacier card.
If I could run ash/Batty without ever having to worry about coming across Rumor Mill, I think I’d be happy, and able to make a functional deck.
Friends is another tangential problem. I really wish they introduced the notion of “red” pip influence, where you basically have to pay the red pip regardless of faction (similar to MWL, except as a core mechanic, not as FFGs half-assed balancing system). I would’ve released friends as 1 red pip 1 blue pip influence (1 inf for HB, 2 otherwise), and have it RFG itself instead of going to archives (so basically I think it should be on the MWL-1 with a RFG errata). MWL-1 might be too light, but I think it’s a starting point (certainly a more reasonable starting point than it came out at).
Yeah, hoping that you don’t come across Titan Rush when you’re playing Nexus Kate isn’t fun.
Wait, that’s not what we’re talking about?
Are you maybe talking about hoping that you don’t face the Ed Kim player with Archives Interface while piloting your CI7 deck?
Honestly Glacier is currently over-represented simply because it’s actually viable again. This is exactly like what happened when RM was released in the first place; RM was in multiples in decks, until Glacier stopped showing its Caprice/Ash/Batty face, and then RM went back down to 1x in most decks. I expect the same to happen again soon. (Oh hey, where’s that Worst Predictions thread…?)
I agree, when glacier players realize that their decks are still not viable because anarchs are running their counter, the amount of Rumor Mill seeing play will decrease as they all go back into CtM and alcoholism.
This is all a bit off-topic, as this thread is about TD cards and their impact on competitive play. But while we’re chatting, I’ve been toying around with some ideas for defensive upgrades and have been having some fun with Will-o’-the-Wisp + Caprice. They can blank Caprice but not WotW, and re-tutoring for your breaker is a lot harder for many decks than pulling it back from Archives. Both combo well with Breaker Bay Grid, so I’m testing a new defensive upgrade and ice composition in HB:ETF and enjoying it so far.
Some of the new upgrades in TD will also threaten scoring windows or tax runners in ways that Rumor Mill can’t address (e.g., Black Level Clearance).
Yep, two good points here. The TD card pool might make RM not a problem competitively (though, I still think it should be banned on the grounds of flawed design). Don’t think it will, but we’ll see.
Also, existing glacier decks can give themselves some teeth against RM (which I think they’re going to want to). Wisp is a nice call. I’ve been working on an Ark Lockdown Palana list with the intention of playing a current and then playing AL on RM (of course can do normal net damage AL shenanigans too). Might be better as a sort of glacier PU… but anyway, still feeling it out.
I would suggest also looking into Off the Grid/Crisium and Bellamy as a possible alternative to Caprice/Ash. That seems pretty great in either HB or Weyland glacier, especially since FiHP negates the downside of Off the Grid.
It also has SOME resilience against Rumor Mill as the runner still has to get through HQ twice and then get into the remote. Sounds pretty pricey.
And now that Faust isn’t seeing nearly the play, Off the Grid/Crisium can be comical with Excaliber. In the new hotness Maxx deck they have no way to actually deal with it - they break and can’t access Crisium, or they don’t break and can’t run again, so they have to double down on Keyhole.
I’ve been running a Jemmison deck with OtG, Crisium, Breaker Bay Grid (makes OTG all cheap), and FiHP… when it works, it’s hilarious. All the ice gets sent to the centrals unless I need to push an agenda early.
Terrible Deck Idea: Whirlpool Death Server into Armoured Servers. Use horrible ICE like FC3 and DNA Tracker. Then when their grip is hone, slam em’ with a single Prisec. or 3.