i don’t think it’s super necessary, but. if going tag me is the concern, you could always cash it out before you go tag me, and then it’s not an issue. granted, the ones you draw late game aren’t as useful, but that’s maybe the case anyway. either way, D&D still isn’t available here yet, so i haven’t yet had a chance to try it out, so it might ;~;
Geist doesn’t die in traffic accidents because he trashes one of his installed cards when you tag him and then you need 2 scorches or he lives. So the decoy effect doesn’t do anything that any other card that you can trash on the corps turn does vs NBN.
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Oh, I misread what you meant. Sure, that’s true.
Thing is, he’s not running a ton. Forger is dirt cheap, and allows the cloud to be activated. I get it. Caprice/Crisium still wrex this, like any Crim.
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So is access to global sec, though, without taking up the valuable console slot. Logos or Box-E would be better, if you’re not convinced Desperado would make it’s money (though I’m sure that deck runs enough that Desperado would not be the worst econ card in the deck. I wouldn’t be surprised if Desperado made more money than Symmetrical Visage, for instance).
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Sure, I don’t think the deck efficiency would be much changed swapping out Forger for Access to Globalsec. Forger a better card, though.
To elaborate some, having played with pure B&E before, you’re basically wedded to your run events and Bank Job for runs. Note the list lacks Dirty Laundry, even. So before the Levy, that’s roughly 7 runs and ideally 21 central accesses, and maybe a couple more afterwards as games often don’t go that long. Running has a huge opportunity cost in cards and clicks. I disagree about Desperado/Symmetric Visage - you don’t run every turn, but you almost certainly draw every turn. Arguably Visage should be Daily Casts though, which is probably better than both.
I’m not saying this deck’s plan is a good plan (I shelved the whole thing because it felt utterly out of my control whether I could run R&D or HQ, and if I could even get past a Tollbooth/Turing at all before NEH or HB could score out, for instance). But it’s probably not the right plan for a Desperado.
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@Dragar I would say the point of Forger over AtG is that forger has another purpose besides the link (saving you from a tag and gaining a draw). It can also feed technical writer, where as AtG is just the link its three slots of what is already an incredibly tight deck dedicated to only link. Forger has other value and uses.
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Sure, there’s lots of reasons Forger is better than AtG.
The real question is: is Forger + 3 bonus cards better than Desperado + 3 AtG or Dyson Mem Chip, when you’re not running Sec Testing and are totally stuck with B&E suite? I think so.
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Thats fair, the biggest issue I have with Geist is he has too many toys for his own good.
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You don’t run to check/trash remotes?
Sure, you can add those runs to the number. I don’t think you can check more than 1 a turn though, or you never get your rig up in time. If the corp is spamming undefended remotes you really should be running Desperado/Sec Testing anyway. I don’t think it changes the decision of 3 link cards + Desperado vs 3 Forger + 3 money cards.
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You know what would put this whole thing to rest? A sweet hopper.
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Yeah. Given that it replaces Plascrete, even I would run that sucker. Would make Crescentus/Crowbaring a tollbooth a little easier and make Spiking interior Curtain Walls basically the best thing ever.
EDIT:
On a side note, how are the Apocalypse experiments going, @spags and @Zeromus?
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I actually didn’t like Apocalypse in Geist. Makes him play differently than I like. Too much setup. I prefer full aggro in criminal.
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What did the setup involve? Was it about planning how to get in everywhere, or more about how to apply maximum pressure afterwards?
Getting the Apocalypse to trigger. Need enough breakers of the correct type to get in all three servers.
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[quote=“Dragar, post:1054, topic:4242, full:true”] If the corp is spamming undefended remotes you really should be running Desperado/Sec Testing anyway. I don’t think it changes the decision of 3 link cards + Desperado vs 3 Forger + 3 money cards.
[/quote]
Personally, I just feel most good Corp decks turn off DesSec really easily. Any ones that don’t, Criminal probably has a really good match-up with anyway.
I like Forger with Tech Writer, more so if you’re running Siphons with Forger. I also realized the other day that Forger basically functions as having 2 Link during a Midseason’s trace which is kind of cool. It completely turns off SEA Source and Posted Bounty, if you see those on occasion.
Desperado essentially functioning like a Bad Pub is really huge those, especially with these large trash cost assets and upgrades people have been playing. Though maybe Political Operative changes this up a little?
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With Political Operative, you’re still going to want to pre-kill SanSan and Team Sponsorship if you can, since both of those will get rezzed at the last possible window giving you no opportunity to fire the Operative before the assets have done their dirty work. You could concede them getting the single fire off those assets, but then Desperado is probably still better because it’ll give you the credit for the kill without burning a valuable tool (even against NEH Operative is still valuable for things like murdering PAD before they can get any value, killing Jackson before they can use it to draw and maybe killing a defended SanSan hiding behind Tollbooth).
I know we’ve had this argument before, but Desperado counts for more than 2 link if you make even a few runs in your game (since Midseason isn’t going to be happening a lot, the credits gained from Desperado could count directly towards not getting tagged by Midseason. They’re probably even worth more than 1 tag per credit because Desperado could gain you money enough to fire off Sure Gambles where Forger will never make you money at all).
This is going to be the best imo. If you’ve ever had Jackson killed with the gun, I have a couple times in some casual jank games, you know how powerful this is. People are going to need to learn to play around Pol Op.
It’s kind of stupid easy to Midseason anymore though. Special Offer + Explode-a-palooza. Thanks for the credit Desperado?
Desperado is obviously still a really good card and I’m not trying to say Forger is better. It’s just different. It has a completely different function.
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Yeah, I’m a fan of the card for sure. I don’t think it slots into my current build, but I super like it in something like @mendax’s shell, especially if you tool towards Off-Campus. The “good connection in Geist” density is getting really silly.
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