Continuing the discussion from Exploring a Stalling Metagame: Nasir Meidan StimShop by El-Ad David Amir:
Initially it seemed to me that a Never Advance style should be workable. With advancement counters, the deck really doesn’t need a lot of money to score, so most of its money can be devoted to defending centrals to protect Atlases.
The problem is that while it’s nice to install a card face down in the remote and then use a combination of advancements and ToL the following turn to score, there’s no disincentive for the Runner to always check the scoring remote. The obvious bait options are Melange, Snare, and Space Camp – none of which are that threatening, even with Scorch backup (in the case of Snare).
That pushed me toward the Fast Advance style instead, but with only 6-7 FA pieces (3x Atlas, 3-4x ToL/SanSan/Biotic), it just seems a lot less reliable than NEH FA, even considering Atlas counters.
The NA style does have the benefit of getting around Clot, but you have to make the Runner not want to check every face down card in your remote. I’m not sure how to do that without making a nasty server, and if you’ve made a nasty server you might as well just play glacier.
Supermodernism without the need to overadvance your atlas. (and with 17 inf instead of 15/10)
Titan Destruction FA OC
Titan Transnational: Investing In Your Future (Order and Chaos)
- 3x Geothermal Fracking (Opening Moves)
- 1x Glenn Station (Order and Chaos)
- 1x High-Risk Investment (Order and Chaos)
- 3x Hostile Takeover (Core Set)
- 3x Project Atlas (What Lies Ahead)
- 1x Constellation Protocol (Order and Chaos)
- 3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
- 1x Mark Yale (Order and Chaos)
- 1x Biotic Labor (Core Set) ••••
- 3x Commercialization (Cyber Exodus)
- 3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
- 3x Power Shutdown (Mala Tempora)
- 3x Trick of Light (Trace Amount) ••••• ••••
- 2x Asteroid Belt (Order and Chaos)
- 1x Changeling (Up and Over)
- 1x Fire Wall (Order and Chaos)
- 3x Ice Wall (Core Set)
Code Gate (5)
- 1x Builder (Order and Chaos)
- 1x Enigma (Core Set)
- 1x Lotus Field (Upstalk) •
- 1x Quandary (Double Time)
- 1x Wormhole (Order and Chaos)
- 1x Orion (Order and Chaos)
17 influence spent (max 17)
21 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Order and Chaos
Decklist published on NetrunnerDB.
This is the Fast Advance variant. Seemed like heavy program destruction is the way to go if you’re running Hostiles and Constellation (Space?) ice. Very rough draft, and won’t get a chance to test it out until I get my cards on Friday. The 1-of’s (Yale, Wisp, Protocol, Satellite Grid, etc.) are just for testing to see what combination is the most useful.
I tried ToL + Biotic earlier this week, and it… didn’t do well. Mostly, I was playing against MaxX, but the hand destruction, siphoning, and general pain from Keyhole… it wasn’t easy. Definitely not what I want to be playing until the meta starts to stabilize some.
New plan is to try out a Glacier build that runs two-of SanSan. We’ll see how it does. Might throw some Scorch tricks in, but right now I’m not sure if I could manage it against that dang MaxX deck, which is almost certainly going to be the one to beat locally.
I’m inclined to agree. My first attempt will be to see if FA with Constellation ice would work. Feels like it will play like a Tennin deck, but you only have to defend two centrals (unless you suspect a Sneakdoor). Just build up (or advance) ice and wait for another trick of light or Atlas. I may want to add 2x Archived Memories instead of Biotic (or go down to 2x Jackson and no Lotus and add 1x Archived Memories). DBS would also be a good option.
A defended SanSan seems like the best idea for Titan FA.
The plan would be to score an Atlas from HQ with SanSan, and then chain them through with the free counter. Keep yourself fueled with Yale. 0 to 7 in 4 turns.Use the counter to SEA into Scorch if they run and trash the SanSan.
Atlastrain is absolutely going to be a thing, and is probably the main gimmick of Titan, as many other ‘agenda counter’ Weyland Agendas currently are either unspectacular (I don’t need a 3rd fracking counter), or tricky to pull off (any of the 5/3s)
I thought of the exact same concept of 3x TOL, 1x Biotic. If you score that first Atlas, the others are basically as scorable as the old ‘Fast-track+Astro+Biotic’ stupidity, but with one less combo card. Additionally, you’re in a better place to Hostile Takeover for the win, or just use the atlas counter for a fatal SEA Source when the runner inevitably must rush you.
Plus, Weyland ICE is now strong enough in cheaper sentries and useful code gates…
Psychic Field is only one influence, and leaves the runner in range of double Scorch through a Plascrete even if they run first click.
Some random thoughts:
Hive is likely very strong in Titan since it helps you over your major hurdle of scoring the first Atlas.
More than a few advancement tokens on a single ICE is likely to be a major risk when everyone is testing out the new Anarch ice-destruction toys
SanSan City Grid on a defended remote will be must trash for the runner since you can chain Atlas
Drawing the first Atlas in a timely manner will be unreliable unless more carddraw or fast tracks are included
Working on my first decklist but I will probably try 3x SanSan, 2x ToL and 2x Jackson as influense
The difference being that having good income isn’t quite so automatic. GRNDL’s starting 10 is a big deal.
Titan seems fine (and gives a reason to run unadvanced remotes) but how good the ID is depends on how well its economy works.
I’m careful with discussing any potential Fast Advance decks until we know more about Clot. @mediohxcore insists that it’s a real card (which is good), but I’ll want to see it before I believe it. If the snow-jax version is correct (1c, 1inf, Corp cannot score on turn agenda is installed), then today’s FA will be entirely irrelevant in a month - some new direction will be necessary.
#Wisdom from El-ad as usual.
I see titan making Midseasons a serious threat. heading to league night tonight with a midseasons-psycho deck. The reason I see this as a great way to go for Titan is that counting on an atlas “train” is unreliable at best. with atlas as the only 3/2 available to weyland, if one or two get stolen early (it happens, don’t say it won’t) you are likely to become dead in the water. Not only is midseasons enabled by titan (in that scoring a single 3/2 makes your singleton copy a real threat), it also enables psychographics, which in turn makes further atlases even more (potentially) ridiculous. I will definitely post a list once I get it fine tuned a bit (not sure which direction to go with ICE… so many new options!) but I think this could be a strong archetype out of titan.
Atlas train seems pretty fickle, as any stolen atlas’s would make scoring out with 3/2’s pretty hard. Personally, it feels like we’re sleeping on Mark Yale, who can gobble up 6 credits from a geothermal and 8 from a from a firmware updates. The Atlas train would certainly be a potential road to victory, but I think investing too heavily on FA when there is only one 3/2 in faction is probably a mistake. Though Biotic Labor still enables the Sea Source + 3x Scorch, or you can turn a naked posted bounty into a better ronin (AAA+scorch).
Maybe there is a game to be played here with mushin no shin, since the threat of any single AAA’d card is so much higher between Atlas and Posted Bounty than anything Jinteki can get away with?
I like this idea too - strength of traps is one part of the MNS head game, but “what will they get if I let it go” is just as big a part of it, and a 4 token atlas is pretty scary. That said, I wonder if that deck belongs in gargarin, which already dis-incentivizes checking remotes, and can play horizontally much more easily…
Mark Yale should be able to get more money because Yale’s ability triggers the spending agenda counters also. So you should be looking 9 from Geothermal and 12 from Firmware. I feel one Yale will be staple in Titan decks. I just hope some combination of new advancement ICE + Yale + Firmware will be playable because otherwise this box doesn’t offer so much for Weyland.
Yale + Firmware could mess up runner’s math. You could rez Orion from 0 credits during next turn if you score Firmware and advance it once.
You don’t even need to have counter based agendas for Yale to do work - since he’ll put an agenda counter on Hostile Takeover too - which you can then spend for $3…
For some reason, I had read his abilities like two separate abilities and didn’t consider that they would of course work together.
See, I went the other way with Gargarin: horizontal is certainly one way to further tax running naked servers, but I feel like the space that is UNIQUE to Gargarin is one super-duper remote, full to the brim with upgrades, rather than trying to play shell game in what feels to me like a weaker Industrial Genomics.
I don’t know if that’s the way to do Gragarin. I considered super-upgrades, but then figured that the runner can just then make sure he has X extra credits to access those things.
At least horizontally, you’re taxing them merely to CHECK (and bump into useless things they wouldn’t have trashed). Damaging or taxing upgrades everywhere (such as Hokusai or Crisium Grids) could conceivably be a thing, I suppose.
Alternatively, focusing the deck on constantly zeroing out runner cash, and using stuff like NAPDs and Zeroed Accounts. Not sure, but Gagarin certainly seems the least overtly useful of the new IDs.
I don’t strictly disagree with you, just my impression of that style is that Gargarin isn’t doing anything for the shell game that other ID’s can’t do better. And while I also agree that the super space-remote might not be amazing, I find it pretty unlikely that the runner will be able to easily calculate how many credits they will need, as long as there are at least a couple face-down cards threatening to throw a wrench in the whole operation.