You run Run R&D, get one virus counter and see at least 2 more new cards (1 for the counter, 1 because of mandatory draw). Then you Demo Run R&D, get one virus counter, trash all the cards (steal the agendas). Then you run R&D the normal way, get one virus counter and see X+3 cards, where X is the number of medium counters at the beginning of your turn.
I did, once, the first time. Got you 4 points, and the game.
I purge constantly. I will purge an Imp with one counter, and did multiple times this past weekend. Underused tool.
To be clear, I don’t think this is true against a decent, non-NEH opponent. Any RP/HB Glacier opponent worth their salt is going to be taxing you on R&D runs in most games. I play plenty of Val – I played her to 1st place in the local Regionals – and the only significant difference in sustained econ I see in your deck is that if you get BOTH Cyberfeeders out, you’ll be netting 1 more credit per run (I run Desperado in my current build). Running R&D for ‘next to nothing’ hasn’t been my experience against good RP players at all, and I don’t think the difference here is 1 Cyberfeeder credit.
BUT – and this is the more important part, at least as far as suspicion of Demo Run goes – if it were true that you were running R&D for ‘next to nothing,’ then the extra dig effect from Demo Run is the spitting definition a “win more” effect. If you trash 5 cards to see 6 new ones, you would see those same 6 cards by the end of the next turn anyway.
That’s not to say there aren’t other advantages from Demo Run (e.g. trashing a Tollbooth before it hits the table, trashing operation econ that might let the corp stabilize, the aforementioned trashing of TFPs, etc.), or that the extra dig isn’t handy in a lot of situations. Against a classic Astrobiotic NEH, for example, you are probably getting in for next to nothing and it’s often going to come down to a race. In a more realistic RP matchup, you won’t have free access to R&D forever, but you might have very cheap access for a turn or two, in which case the Demo acceleration might be quite valuable. It’s not that it’s a worthless card at all, it’s that the ideal situation you’ve described (sustained unlimited access to R&D with a Medium on the table) is not a situation where it shines (because you’ve already won).
Sure, but you dont necessarily need a Demo run for that.
Certainly decent RP players will try to make R&D runs is taxing as possible.
And thats where Parasites come in handy. Tollbooth, Susanoo, Eli…
With Ice Carver they die even faster. Always considering that the Corp actually
draws them (and they do not get trashed from Demo Run.
And also: If they protect R&D, ´how do they want to score in Remotes? If the good ICE
is on R&D, also a Caprice or an Ash wont help score out the Niseis.
Before NRE hit the meta, I ran BOTH Desperado and Workshop. But NRE has approximately the same effect as Desperado plus it allows you to stop playing Knight for Lotus Field.
You still haven’t explained how Demo Run wins you games that you would have lost otherwise. Saying ‘this card is good in this situation’ doesn’t justify it’s include, since you seem to be comparing the card to not having any card at all.
You need to justify it over other available options.
What (or more importantly, who) did you just call a tool?
In this situation it is a necessary tool to speed you up in the race.
However, could you please explain us what is the game-winning factor of Demo Run if you don’t use it this way?
I certainly use it that way. I already tried to explain above that Demo Run is a card that does win you games against NEH on matchpoint due to the additionals accesses. It can be seen as an economy card, as it has the same economic value as Dirty Laundry when there is a Crisium Grid to trash,
it can force RP to use a Nisei counter they normally would save for their remote and, as also stated, due to deeper digging the likelihood for Turntable shenanigans increases. I really like that card, but if you disagree, that is alright.
However, I think that the discussion about Demo Run or not is not the most important one. Much more interesting are things like Personal Workshop v Desperado and Queens Gambit over Daily Casts.
While the first is I think the by far more interesting (and discussworthy) choice strategy wise, I am fairly certain that Queens Gambit is better than Daily Casts. In the current meta more or next every Corp plays assets (even Weyland!) and you are actually quite safe advancing an unrezzed card, particularly that Upgrade in the Sundew/Adonis-Remote). Queen’s Gambit has no credit sink, the return is instant and it has approximately the same economic value (5 creds for 1 Click (Daily Casts) to 6 creds for 2 clicks (Queen’s Gambit)).
Of course you could play Career fair to improve Daily Casts, but that is combo-y and requires you to spend influence. I found Queen’s Gambit to be very nice, also because the burst allows you to click Kati once more, increasing her efficiency. For contrast, I often see a six or nine credit Kati being dumped, just to be able to install Daily Casts… Queen’s Gambit often allows me to bring Kati to twelve, fifteen or even more credits, just because those 6 burst credits help me finance two or more turns.
it’s not that i think demo run is strong, it’s just that the type of val i run is pretty weak vs butchershop and i can see it as a useful tool in that matchup.
slot 2 of them for this, lose cards i’d rather play? nope. i’ve already thrown in a plascrete, just gonna have to outplay the opponent.
queens gambit vs daily casts is just about whether or not you’re career fairing (you should be).
personal workshop is the one tool i have to test that might actually be worth reworking the deck for. the fact that it’d allow me to be powering up parasites and medium with grimoire is very tempting. you’re also getting discount that might make you want to dump career fairs for influence, though if ppv kate has shown us anything it’s that the “more money than god” approach is a winning one
Due to me playing Personal Workshop there is no influence for Career fair
I really love Personal Workshop for so many reasons.
A) economically it is a 1 cred per turn drip card.
B) When you are able to run for free (unprotected Archives, runs fuelled by Cyberfeeders),
you get an additional credit PER RUN from Bad Pub
C) Because you can dump your Hardware and Programs on it, you can stay on a low level of Credits,
so you can afford clicking Kati more and increasing her efficiency)
D) Instant Parasite, do I need to say more?
Has your kati been snatched? Ever?
No, that is something that has not happened yet…
Just finished 5th/6th at Philly regionals with Val, I’ll put the list up when we get home.
It had better have Memstrips or Demo Run
Don’t get too excited, there’s a reason I didn’t win the whole thing
Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe
3x Career Fair •••
2x Déjà Vu
3x I’ve Had Worse
1x Legwork ••
3x Sure Gamble
3x Clone Chip ••••• •
1x Plascrete Carapace
3x Daily Casts
3x Earthrise Hotel
2x Kati Jones
3x Liberated Account
2x ZU.13 Key Master ••••
15 influence spent (max 15)
50 cards (min 50)
Cards up to Breaker Bay
Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.
Valencia puts on a hell of a show as a Money + Breakers deck. Double David was great all day, there were some matches where I wished I had 3 of them, although a single copy of Spooned would have done about the same work. I thought I would have a worse NEH matchup than I did, but I beat it multiple (4 I think?) times on the day, only losing to Zach Cavis after a couple of bum Legworks. But Both my Corp and runner decks were at 6 points in every game I lost on the day. This will give you a great chance against everyone you sit down across from.
Before flatline decks go so stupidly popular, the Plascrete was a SoT, which I still like in here if Butcher goes away, but having a very good matchup vs a deck that was 20+% of the field was worth the 1 card slot. A third datasucker or Kati or whatever are always viable, and I’d like to do some testing with an Incubator, but I have a suspicion that the 2nd copy of Medium is slightly better on average.
This list looks excellent to me. You had me at 3x Inject.
What was your reason for Zu over Yog+Eyes
Didn’t want to have to combo anything to get past lotus field. Even with all the draw, 50 cards is a lot to get through. It might be worth revisiting, but I think I’d rather just play a spooned.
Very similar core to L4J. Love that new shell for a solid Anarch deck.
Well done. Double D4V1D does damage.