I think your second point is spot on, the other factions now have SanSan City Grid, Ash and Caprice Nisei as very efficient scoring upgrades. Still, I think part of the problem is that Weylands present need for bad pub agendas is like shooting any kind of long-term plan in the foot without getting enough benefits.
There are other ways to get Weyland stronger as well, some kind of reliable tagging would be great…
An alternative option would be to let Weyland use BP to its advantage. Ireress is one of my favorite pieces of ICE (still unplayable, though); I’d like to see more cards like that, along with Assets and Operations. A Weyland drip Asset that gave you money for Bad Publicity might be interesting. I know the idea of BP is to give the Runner an advantage, but it could be so much more than that. In my mind it is a mechanic that needs to be explored and utilized more, beyond its basic function.
Another promising Weyland mechanic is that of the self-mill, as in Power Shutdown. I like the idea of Weyland being willing to sacrifice things to hurt the Runner (like the flavor text of Scorched Earth). Weyland is both diametrically opposed to Anarchs, and very much in-line with them. It’s the old villain saying,
“We aren’t so different, you and I.”
High-risk Investment guarantees that a trace will succeed, so that’ll help BABW get better, and Satellite Grid and Space Camp along with the 6 advancable ICE that’ll come out in Order and Chaos will probably make BWBI at least as good as Tennin is now, and Blue Sun will be great for a Glacier Deck. I think Weyland will end up being at least Tier 2 after Order and Chaos comes out. Anarch actually seems to be getting the shorter end of the stick.
Okay I been itching to ask this question: has anyone tried using Chimera and Mother Goddess as a primary method to lock up the early game with GRNDL Supermodernism and how well has it worked/not worked etc.? I been messing around with my Supermodernism deck and I’m just not 100% on using 3 Chimera and 3 Mother Goddess to make servers difficult to break through, primarily the scoring remote server.
That server will hold up for scoring a single agenda, if you manage to draw an agenda, 1 chimera and 1 goddess early on. Few turns into the game shapers will just test run femme goddess and smc parasite chimera, so not a very consistent strategy I would say.
Yeah someone just brought to my attention too that Mother Goddess is also unique. Let’s just blame that stupid marker for unique not being blatant enough especially for nubs like me lol.
@mediohxcore can you expand on why you think a ‘win early or lose’ deck can’t be competitive n netrunner? I agree that if it’s a faction’s only option it’s problematic. But it’s a valid archetype in all the other card games I’ve played. I can’t see why it shouldn’t work in principle in netrunner.
Is it just that you can’t force the agendas to turn up on time?
I like this idea a lot. Could become a thing. I’d try with less agenda’s and punitives, for two win conditions, but ya, can see a lot of potential here.
‘Win early’ is great. The problem is the ‘or lose’ part. Much better is ‘Win early, or still have a chance’.
Supermodernism often concedes when the Runner can repeatedly break the remote because the Scorch threat is not reliable against strong runners, but TWIY/NEH can randomly win by fast advance even when all their ICE does nothing and they have nearly no money.
If you look at other card games that have successful ‘win early or lose’ type decks, they’re generally more like TWIY. For example in M:TG, Red Deck Wins wants to swarm with creatures and win early, but they can randomly win in the late game by just top-decking burn spells to send at the weakened opponent’s face.
What does a random win from a losing position look like for Weyland?
Power Shutdown combo lets you score 2 points from deck for $2, or 3 points from deck for $10. So if you can rush out 4-5 points and find your combo, then you can turn a lost board position into a win.
This list keeps Scorch in just to make sure you crush bad players, but you could also imply the threat and increase scoring consistency with more draw and econ instead of SEA/Scorch.
Taxing ICE like Shadow/Caduceus + Paywall Implementation to create money differential, or lots of hard ETR?
Discuss!
###[Doomsday Tax][1] (49 cards)
Agenda (10)
Asset (3)
Operation (22)
Barrier (5)
Code Gate (3)
Sentry (5)
ICE (1)
Built with [http://netrunner.meteor.com/][28]
[1]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/JPe3dLjeiHotoPz2J
[2]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/weyland-consortium-core
[3]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/geothermal-fracking-opening-moves
[4]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/government-contracts-a-study-in-static
[5]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/hostile-takeover-core
[6]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/project-atlas-what-lies-ahead
[7]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/jackson-howard-opening-moves
[8]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/accelerated-diagnostics-mala-tempora
[9]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/beanstalk-royalties-core
[10]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/biotic-labor-core
[11]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/hedge-fund-core
[12]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/interns-mala-tempora
[13]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/paywall-implementation-the-spaces-between
[14]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/power-shutdown-mala-tempora
[15]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/reclamation-order-double-time
[16]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/restructure-second-thoughts
[17]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/scorched-earth-core
[18]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/sea-source-core
[19]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/shipment-from-sansan-second-thoughts
[20]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/subliminal-messaging-fear-and-loathing
[21]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/hive-double-time
[22]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/ice-wall-core
[23]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/datapike-creation-and-control
[24]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/quandary-double-time
[25]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/caduceus-what-lies-ahead
[26]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/shadow-core
[27]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/card/mother-goddess-upstalk
[28]: http://netrunner.meteor.com/decks/JPe3dLjeiHotoPz2J
Well, this looks quite interesting. Wondering if anyone tried it out yet? Does it work? In theory, the idea is nice. I would add more program destruction - Rotos and Secretaries.
14 ICE? Isn’t that too little?
Not sure. I’d say there are some key cards for this build that I’m missing (read: targeted marketing and will-o-wisp) at the moment so I haven’t been able to try it out properly, bloody stupid african netrunner access (we are two datapacks behind now).
Not sure I understand this list at all. Looks like shutdown combo or nothing? None of your ICE does anything. 0 Destroyers in Weyland seems like you’re asking for trouble (especially with that ICE suite). What’s your money for? You don’t have any money -> score levers other than the threat of SEA scorch.
Hey Stiv, it’s my list that I used in a tournament on Sunday, though the idea and list itself originally came from Azeltir on BGG. You can read the brief discussion on BGG here.
Weyland remains one of my favorite factions and I frequently bring Supermodernism builds to tournaments, so I thought I would try something a bit different this past weekend (I did win a tournament the day prior with a Cerebral Scorch build - what better way to follow up than a flatline-less Weyland deck, heh). The deck is fun to play with, but it is obviously very different from the Supermodernism build and is taking some getting used to. Its playstyle is more akin to that of a glacier deck than the rush style that comes with Supermodernism.
In any case, I did well in the tournament with it, even against a dedicated Overmind deck without Corroder. My only loss came in a game where the Runner lost both of his Corroders in the first two turns of the game. He was at a loss and sat back and clicked for credits for most of the remainder of the game. I was up 5-4 with a scored Atlas and Atlas counter, a secure remote, and another Project Atlas left in R&D… looked like smooth sailing. Then he installed Crypsis, loaded two virus counters, and ran through Archer and Wall of Static on R&D (Off the top of my head, I believe 14 credits and 2 counters) for a single access, and pulled the last 3-pointer in R&D for the win. Doh!
In both playtesting and the tournament, I have won every game that I rezzed the Ichi 2.0 in… but it’s an influence hog and just not a reliable draw as a 1-of. Right now I am considering dropping the Ichi 2.0 for 3 Rototurrets, just to increase the density of destroyers in the deck.
This Uncorrodable deck looks beautiful. Can’t wait to give it some spins on OCTGN
The troubles with the ‘win quickly or lose’ strategy with Weyland are that, against a strong runner playing Andromeda in particular, you actually can’t even win quickly, and, as Kiv said, you have basically no hope of ‘topdecking’ out of the situation. The only good way to combat the lack of good lategame topdecks I have found is Aggressive Secretary, as you can threaten a big score, force a run, and turn the tides of the game in your favor. Unfortunately, it isn’t great at advancing your general gameplan early and it is vulnerable to both central accesses and expose.
I really shouldn’t have said that I don’t think win quickly or lose CAN’T be competitive, I really should have just said that it isn’t. Really, I think this is in large part to the presumably eternal presence of Andy, who can set up quickly and lock you out of your remote server while also maintaining a credit lead on you for the entire game. Prepaid decks can do the same thing with most of their draws. The problem isn’t that the strategy is bad, it’s that Weyland just isn’t fast enough. Power Shutdown combo decks are actually fast enough in many cases, and whether they’re Weyland Scorch or CI 7-Points, I think those decks are both more surprising and more competitive than traditional Weyland T&B/Supermodernism, mostly because they’re faster.
I played that deck for a while before switching back to HB:ETF. My agenda suite was the same, and my operations were the same except -2 paywall +2 beanstalk. For ice, though, you need destroyers - I think I ran 2 archer, 2 grim, 2 chimera. Caduceus quickly becomes useless with all the bad pub you rack up, and Hive is too expensive for what it does.
The deck was okay. Its main weapon was comboing out 2 or 3 points for super cheap, as you say, so the games were basically “can I get to 4 points before the runner locks me out of the game”. Unfortunately the deck has several weaknesses at once:
I also tried a version that cut biotic labor and reclamation order to make room for better ice (data raven), but it turns out 5 points is a lot harder to rush to than 4.
I really like the look of this. Incidentally, I made an all-neutral corp deck for kicks, and was surprised to find that it’s not completely terrible, solely because of will-o-the-wisp. That card has the potential to make no-flatline agenda rush a viable strategy again.
One thing to keep in mind is that will’o the wisp works very well with Ash. It should make it more than one-use-only-and-trash-it, and should provide a scoring window after that…
I’m definitely trying the Uncorrodable soon.
But WiilO is one use only, or am I missing something?